Whatzit?

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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:10 pm

webenda wrote:It looks blue to me also.

Perhaps you could give the common name and/or scientific name of the blue flower?


Common name - blue posey flower; pick and put a vase for the better 1/2....

And identify the other thing in the photo?


Could not see that before so was confused by the 2-fer aspect - some sort of albino spider?
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webenda
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby webenda » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:25 pm

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
webenda wrote:It looks blue to me also.

Perhaps you could give the common name and/or scientific name of the blue flower?


Common name - blue posey flower; pick and put a vase for the better 1/2....


Posy
Image
Not technically a flower but a small bouquet. Posies are traditionally pictured as small bouquets, most often tied with ribbon. They can be small enough to be worn pinned to clothing or fixed in hair.

The flower plant pictured Lobelia puberula, or downy lobelia, is a perennial herbaceous wildflower in the Bellflower family (Campanulaceae) native to eastern and south central United States.

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
webenda wrote:And identify the other thing in the photo?


Could not see that before so was confused by the 2-fer aspect - some sort of albino spider?

The spider in the flower is another Crab Spider, a Misumena vatia to be exact.
This crab spider is unusual in that it can change its color at will. The color change is induced by visual feedback; spiders with painted eyes were found to have lost this ability.

I found an article on this color change in Journal of Chemical Ecology volume 36, pages412–423 (2010)

Cryptic Color Change in a Crab Spider (Misumena vatia): Identification and Quantification of Precursors and Ommochrome Pigments by HPLC
• Mickaël Riou &
• Jean-Philippe Christidès

"Mimicry is used widely by arthropods to survive in a hostile environment. Often mimicry is associated with the production of chemical compounds such as pigments. In crab spiders, the change of color is based on a complex physiological process that still is not understood. The aim of this study was to identify and quantify the ommochrome pigments and precursors responsible for the color change in the mimetic crab spider Misumena vatia (Thomisidae). A modified high performance reverse phase ion-pair chromatography technique enabled us to separate and quantify the ommochrome pigments, their precursors, and related metabolites in individual spiders."
Last edited by webenda on Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:38 pm

webenda wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
webenda wrote:It looks blue to me also.

Perhaps you could give the common name and/or scientific name of the blue flower?


Common name - blue posey flower; pick and put a vase for the better 1/2....


Posy

Not technically a flower but a small bouquet. Posies are traditionally pictured as small bouquets, most often tied with ribbon. They can be small enough to be worn pinned to clothing or fixed in hair.


Definitions vary - any flower was a posey when my grandfather was lopping one off for my grandmother. Get up around that part of PA, poseys are just pretty flowers be they 1 or many in a bunch.

Bellflower......hmmmm......heard of such....probably have mowed my share of them over, too.

The flower plant pictured Lobelia puberula, or downy lobelia, is a perennial herbaceous wildflower in the Bellflower family (Campanulaceae) native to eastern and south central United States.

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
webenda wrote:And identify the other thing in the photo?


Could not see that before so was confused by the 2-fer aspect - some sort of albino spider?

The spider in the flower is another Crab Spider, a Misumena vatia to be exact.
This crab spider is unusual in that it can change its color at will.


Best to keep Will away then.

I found an article on this color change in Journal of Chemical Ecology volume 36, pages412–423 (2010)

Cryptic Color Change in a Crab Spider (Misumena vatia): Identification and Quantification of Precursors and Ommochrome Pigments by HPLC
• Mickaël Riou &
• Jean-Philippe Christidès

Mimicry is used widely by arthropods to survive in a hostile environment. Often mimicry is associated with the production of chemical compounds such as pigments. In crab spiders, the change of color is based on a complex physiological process that still is not understood. The aim of this study was to identify and quantify the ommochrome pigments and precursors responsible for the color change in the mimetic crab spider Misumena vatia (Thomisidae). A modified high performance reverse phase ion-pair chromatography technique enabled us to separate and quantify the ommochrome pigments, their precursors, and related metabolites in individual spiders.


That reads almost interesting enough for me to go download a copy just read about the HPLC conditions to see how they were modified and from what...................almost. I used to use a prep HPLC with a RP ion-pairing gradient literally non-stop for 2 weeks at a time to isolate some of my compounds before just doing a stereospecific synthesis.........
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webenda
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby webenda » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:07 pm

Stereospecific... hmm,
One way, or another, I'm gonna find ya
I'm gonna get ya, get ya, get ya, get ya
One way, or another, I'm gonna win ya
I'm gonna get ya, get ya, get ya, get ya
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:23 pm

webenda wrote:Stereospecific... hmm,
One way, or another, I'm gonna find ya
I'm gonna get ya, get ya, get ya, get ya
One way, or another, I'm gonna win ya
I'm gonna get ya, get ya, get ya, get ya


Now if only Debbie Harry had worked in my lab
Conservatism: The intense fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is inferior is being treated as your equal.

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webenda
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby webenda » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:53 pm

As long as we are talking about isolating components, how about a whatzit on the subject?

Whatzit?
Image
Last edited by webenda on Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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Re: Whatzit?

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:00 pm

Old school paper chromatography from this angle....and not really clean either. Looks like someone jiggled the jar a bit, :wink: :wink:
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webenda
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby webenda » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:37 pm

Liquid Chromatography Equipment (HPLC)

Agilent 1260 Infinity HPLC with Quat Pump VL and MWD VL. Price: $34,000 new ($29,000 used.)
Reference: https://conquerscientific.com/lab-equip ... ment-hplc/

DIY Chromatography Kit
Glass Cylinder with bamboo lid: $12:49 at Hobby Lobby
Round Ceramic Magnets: $2.69 at Hobby Lobby
Filter Paper Strips: $3.99 from Mini Science Inc
Binder Clips: $1.79 from Office Max
Glue: 3.99 from Office Max
Water: Free from tap.
Total: $24.95

Final result for Diamine Ancient Copper ink.
Image
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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webenda
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby webenda » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:07 pm

Separation techniques: Chromatography

North Clin Istanb. 2016; 3(2): 156–160.
Published online 2016 Nov 11. doi: 10.14744/nci.2016.32757

Chromatography is an important biophysical technique that enables the separation, identification, and purification of the components of a mixture for qualitative and quantitative analysis.

Chromatography is based on the principle where molecules in mixture applied onto the surface or into the solid, and fluid stationary phase (stable phase) is separating from each other while moving with the aid of a mobile phase. The factors effective on this separation process include molecular characteristics related to adsorption (liquid-solid), partition (liquid-solid), and affinity or differences among their molecular weights. Because of these differences, some components of the mixture stay longer in the stationary phase, and they move slowly in the chromatography system, while others pass rapidly into mobile phase, and leave the system faster.

Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology (1955)
Volume 45 | Issue 4 | Article 14

POLICE SCIENCE
Identification of liquid writing inks by paper chromatography marks the most important step in the field of ink identification in recent times.
With relatively simple means, most inks can be differentiated and much can be ascertained rapidly regarding their composition. The dyes become visible individually, and with ultraviolet light and chemical testing, invisible constituents can be located on the paper.

PERSONAL USE OF CHROMATOGRAPHY
Wayne Benda, Model Train Journal, 9/14/2021,

FOUNTAIN PEN and BOTTLED INK COLLECTING
Allows the collector an easy way to see what dyes were used to achieve the color of the ink. If the collector keeps a chromatographic record of his inks and looses track of which ink is in a fountain pen (or bottle in the case of Diamine ink) he can easily identify the unknown ink by running a chromatograph on the unknown ink.
Image
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:37 am

Looks like you over spent and also overloaded the paper. Jelly jar and plate on top suspend the paper with a paper clip....got to hold that budget in place!

Probably could get a lot better resolution applying far less to the paper. But that's a good teaching example that could be used in grade schools! Might be interesting to see what happens if you add a bit of acid to the developing solution or alcohol.

Does remind me of back when we had to make our own silica TLC plates on glass by dipping slide glass into silica suspended in chloroform. Most of the time it would slide back off the glass due to a lack of binder. Using your own silica on glass was supposed to mimic the conditions of silica column chromatography
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webenda
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby webenda » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:00 pm

I was riding my bike out in the woods one day, when I came upon this thing across the trail.
Image
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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webenda
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby webenda » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:05 pm

I stopped to get a better look at it.
Whatzit?
Image
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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chuck
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby chuck » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:46 am

Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?

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webenda
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby webenda » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:44 am

Thank you for the image link, Chuck.

Every time I tried to see it from the top side it would run and hide.

Bokeh
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----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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webenda
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Re: Whatzit?

Postby webenda » Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:20 pm

In Tucson the big butterflies started looking pretty beat-up in December.
Here in Columbia they already look beat-up in September.

Whatzit?
Image
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard


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