TARIFFS

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MurphOnMillerAve
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby MurphOnMillerAve » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:45 pm

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Roy wrote:I imagine we learned a few things from British victory gardens.



And from the other couple of thousand years of agricultural history.........

It's often been amazing to me how unfamiliar urban youth are to the realities of agricultural America. For example, on the very first day of having the young people on-site, ready to turn the soil, after cleaning the lots of debris, they all came to work wearing sneakers, many of which had well-worn soles and/or holes in the toes and sides. When they made their first attempts to use shovels and spades, they were hurting their feet. Immediately, I stopped all work and collected everybody into our vans and drove to the nearby Army-Navy-Sporting-goods store and purchased Timberlane boots for all of them. When we returned to the empty-lots, I swear, they were smiling the whole day long as they stepped on shovels to turn the soil.

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Re: TARIFFS

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:53 pm

MurphOnMillerAve wrote:It's often been amazing to me how unfamiliar urban youth are to the realities of agricultural America.


You mean, you have to grow the food? In dirt? OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby MurphOnMillerAve » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:02 pm

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
MurphOnMillerAve wrote:It's often been amazing to me how unfamiliar urban youth are to the realities of agricultural America.


You mean, you have to grow the food? In dirt? OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, and you should have seen their reaction when I took them into an Arab-American delicatessen, and the proprietor told them what the oval-shaped, slightly larger than goose-egg-sized objects, lined up 2by2 in the refrigerated case, were.

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G3750
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby G3750 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:09 pm

Mitch wrote:The whole world wants "free" trade, just as long as the US takes it on the chin. Nobody wants a trade war, including the current administration. What we're lookin' for here is equality; but the rest of the world wants a leg up. It wouldn't piss me off if the US put the tariffs back where they were, but then block all imports completely with an embargo. It would hurt a lot of American companies temporarily, (Walmart, Target, etc.), but the other countries would change their tune in a hurry, as they need us more than we need them. And never underestimate the power of American business to ramp up and fill the void in a time of need. (Greed is a powerful motivator). Companies are starting to return to the US for manufacturing, and with the deregulation that's in place now, (ie: government red tape and environmental laws), it will become profitable to manufacture products here in the states. Even the foreign car manufacturers are building the plants here. Mercedes exports 60% of the US made cars. As for GM, (like the other domestic car makers), they're a cry baby that's looking for government sympathy. Maybe they've forgotten that the administration changed in January of '17?


Many of the unfair trade agreements of the past were foisted on us by Congress, the best legislative body foreign money can buy. Trump is pushing for fair trade agreements. I think he's going to get them. These tariffs are waking up our partner nations. I believe that's their sole purpose and things will go back to normal when fair agreements are negotiated (or renegotiated).

The sky is NOT falling.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:09 pm

MurphOnMillerAve wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
MurphOnMillerAve wrote:It's often been amazing to me how unfamiliar urban youth are to the realities of agricultural America.


You mean, you have to grow the food? In dirt? OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, and you should have seen their reaction when I took them into an Arab-American delicatessen, and the proprietor told them what the oval-shaped, slightly larger than goose-egg-sized objects, lined up 2by2 in the refrigerated case, were.


You also had to take them to a grocery store and explain that meat does not naturally come wrapped in plastic on styrofoam.....a trip to a real butcher's shop probably made many in vegans, :roll:
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby MurphOnMillerAve » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:17 pm

The Arab-American boy, Ahmed, who was my student, and the one who invited that we go into the store, still laughs, to this day, anytime he is reminded of everybody's mouth falling open, at the same exact moment, when told by the proprietor that the white objects only looked like eggs, but were in a way "eggs", yet a loss, nonetheless, to several hapless animals who didn't need them anymore. We didn't venture further into the world of meats that day. Or any other day.

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Re: TARIFFS

Postby Mitch » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:18 pm

Bet your credit card took a pretty good hit, but made the Army/Navy proprietor a pretty happy camper when you shod all those kids with Timberlands. Those shoes don't come cheap! :lol:
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby MurphOnMillerAve » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:59 pm

Mitch wrote:Bet your credit card took a pretty good hit, but made the Army/Navy proprietor a pretty happy camper when you shod all those kids with Timberlands. Those shoes don't come cheap! :lol:

Twenty pairs of them. But the promised repayment, agreed to afterward, by City Hall, did eventually materialize, after about 6 months.

And, yes, the proprietor and I became friends on-the-spot that day. :D
Last edited by MurphOnMillerAve on Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

up148
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby up148 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:42 am

G3750 wrote:
Mitch wrote:The whole world wants "free" trade, just as long as the US takes it on the chin. Nobody wants a trade war, including the current administration. What we're lookin' for here is equality; but the rest of the world wants a leg up. It wouldn't piss me off if the US put the tariffs back where they were, but then block all imports completely with an embargo. It would hurt a lot of American companies temporarily, (Walmart, Target, etc.), but the other countries would change their tune in a hurry, as they need us more than we need them. And never underestimate the power of American business to ramp up and fill the void in a time of need. (Greed is a powerful motivator). Companies are starting to return to the US for manufacturing, and with the deregulation that's in place now, (ie: government red tape and environmental laws), it will become profitable to manufacture products here in the states. Even the foreign car manufacturers are building the plants here. Mercedes exports 60% of the US made cars. As for GM, (like the other domestic car makers), they're a cry baby that's looking for government sympathy. Maybe they've forgotten that the administration changed in January of '17?


Many of the unfair trade agreements of the past were foisted on us by Congress, the best legislative body foreign money can buy. Trump is pushing for fair trade agreements. I think he's going to get them. These tariffs are waking up our partner nations. I believe that's their sole purpose and things will go back to normal when fair agreements are negotiated (or renegotiated).

The sky is NOT falling.

George




+1

BH

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Mitch
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby Mitch » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:54 am

MurphOnMillerAve wrote:
You are right, up148. Using it isn't optimal. I have long had (via Cook College @ Rutgers U.) the understanding that the best manure for gardens and crops is horse manure = the "sweetest" (least acidic; least "hot") ;


We really do have some far out drift on these boards. I wouldn't have thought that a thread on tariffs would have morphed into the best fertilizer for the garden, but since I know a little about it and have nothing better to do, let me add my $0.02. :)

If you're gonna use horse manure for your garden or flower beds, and you purchase it in the raw state, (ie: right out of the stables), the best time to put it on the garden area is in the fall, after you've picked the garden clean. This allows the winter rains and snow to soak through and distribute the nutrients through the soil. Here in western PA., folks all head to the mushroom farms and mines to get the "used" manure, which when tilled in, in the spring, still has plenty of nutrients and also helps to keep the soil loose to promote root growth.

We had a huge Mushroom Mine right close to me in Winfield, Pa., and it was all underground in the limestone mines. Employed hundreds. You may have heard of or seen Moonlight Mushrooms in grocery stores throughout the east. But having worked a short stint in an above ground mushroom farm after graduation and before I left for the Navy, I can briefly explain how horseshit goes from the fresh raw state to "used".

There were 7 "houses" on the farm I worked at. All two story cement block houses hooked together to appear as one like a row house, but each individual house separated by a cement block wall between them. Each house had 7 beds beginning about floor level to within a few feet of the roof. There were two sets of beds on each side of the house. Coming in from the rear side of the house, (the houses were built up against the side of a hill), there was a door in each house level with a large cement pad behind the houses. All of the beds in the houses were made up of loose white oak boards, and all were rolled up toward the outside of the house when not in use, allowing you to stand on the upper catwalk and look down to floor through all the studding which supported the beds. You had a center walkway, and about a 30" wide walkway against each block wall of the house. Here's how it went when you prepped a house for new growth.

Down on the bottom floor, roll out all the boards in the very bottom beds on each side. This creates the "floor" for the bottom of the bed. A long conveyor is brought in off the rear cement pad all the way to the front of the house. The long part of the conveyor is for forward, and at the front of the conveyor is another short one that goes left/right. The raw horse manure is piled on the cement pad out back, and the conveyor gets loaded with a bucket loader. A single operator handles the left/right conveyor shooting the manure out the sides and down to the ground floor bed. We piled it high up to the bottom of where the next bed will be. The conveyor backs up, filling the entire bottom row on each side of the house. Meanwhile, we're rolling out the second bed row of boards for the conveyor to come back in and start the process over again. This goes on until we're up to the 7th and last beds. When all the beds are leveled out and the manure distributed evenly, the house is closed up and the steam is turned on. Steam runs for about a week, keeping the house at 130/140 degrees , and the manure all settles down to about 8" thick, and it turns black and rich. The steams gets turned off the house is allowed to cool, and then by hand, we bring in two gallon buckets of a rich red dirt, about 240 buckets for each level, times 7 levels, and we spread it out by hand completely covering all the manure with a thin coat of dirt. The entire house gets watered, the lights go out, and this forms a crust on the dirt, which we then scratch loose with a big comb, (3 foot section of plaster lath with about 50 finishing nails drove in evenly), and then mushroom spoor is sown, (thrown in by hand), and the beds watered again. The lights go off, and the house goes dark for a few days, and when you go back in, the dirt is growing "cobwebs" from the spoor. No more electric lights 'cept for head lanterns. We scratch it all loose again, (2 more times), and now the entire bed is covered with cobwebs. In a day or two, you'll see a few mushrooms. In a week, thousands of mushrooms, and the ladies come in to pick. (They're wearing miners caps with electric lanterns). They can pick that particular house for 2 weeks or so until there's almost no yield, then they move to another house. And then we begin by bringin' the conveyor back in and unloading the entire house in the reverse order that we loaded it, rolling back the boards on each bed 'til we're on the bottom floor. This manure that comes out of the house is piled up and sold to individuals, truck gardeners, landscaping outfits, and others. And that's the story of horse manure as the best fertilizer. :lol:

Hope there's no tariff on it! :wink:
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:01 am

Mitch wrote:We had a huge Mushroom Mine right close to me in Winfield, Pa., and it was all underground in the limestone mines.


Fascinating, Mitch.

I had thought that the center of mushroom cultivation in PA was in Kennett Square where I seem to remember that roughly 50% of the county's mushrooms are grown.
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Mitch
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby Mitch » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:16 pm

It was a bit sad, Rufus. Moonlight Mushrooms was a union company. It was the combination of increased competition and union demands that led to the demise of the company. I'm talkin' 10 refrigerated trailer loads of 'shrooms per day rolled out of there. One man's trucking company alone comprised 8 tractors and 12 reefer trailers and was dedicated strictly to Moonlight alone. He and his driver's died along with the company. Then the employees got together and bought it out. They failed quickly, and another company came in and bought it. It runs at about 25% of its' former self, and is of course non-union. Their claim to fame now is creating spoor for surviving mushroom outfits throughout the US.
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Re: TARIFFS

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:09 pm

Mitch wrote:It was a bit sad, Rufus. Moonlight Mushrooms was a union company. It was the combination of increased competition and union demands that led to the demise of the company. I'm talkin' 10 refrigerated trailer loads of 'shrooms per day rolled out of there. One man's trucking company alone comprised 8 tractors and 12 reefer trailers and was dedicated strictly to Moonlight alone. He and his driver's died along with the company. Then the employees got together and bought it out. They failed quickly, and another company came in and bought it. It runs at about 25% of its' former self, and is of course non-union. Their claim to fame now is creating spoor for surviving mushroom outfits throughout the US.


Well, I guess some survival beats total obliteration.

Hard to compete against the multiple companies in Kennett Square. Used to drive through there regularly - Mushroom Capitol of the US.
Evil cannot create anything new, it can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have created or made.

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Re: TARIFFS

Postby CWBurfle » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:25 pm

The comments about mushroom farming got me curious - there were a fair number of mushroom farms in my region. According to what I see on the web, we are down to one farm. The rest were put out of business by competition from new farms in Pennsylvania. :)

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Re: TARIFFS

Postby robert. » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:49 pm

A couple of years ago. Somebody did a story about Kennett Square crime. Basically if the mushroom farm workers were to call the police. Kennett Square would have the highest crime rate per capita crime rate in Pa. All the farms have undocumented workers living 3 families per small trailer. It get real stressful with those conditions. Too top it off the farm owner chargers a lot for rent on a trailer. Most of the occupants need to work a second job. Extortion rape and beatings take place daily. In these little farm communities. True or not? I don't know. It was played up as a real hellhole.
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