Hmmm...I would only dispute the distance. I think it's a bit more than "a couple hundred miles"...it looks like the distance from Rio Gallegos to the Falklands alone is ~ 350 miles, and if the operational range of a Skyhawk is 1,700 nautical miles, that tells me those guys were flying ~ 800 miles out and back with an eye on the fuel needle most of the way back (presuming they didn't get splashed on location, lol).
I do think that a Skyhawk pilot putting conventional ordnance onto HMS Coventry with very limited avionics and countermeasures in the teeth of Sea Darts, Phalanx, and God knows what else she was throwing up gets him some creds. Thankfully the Argie's upper ranks were unsuited strategically for the task at hand. If they'd sent everything at once it might have been very bad, although I recall the carriers and some of the other control ships were operating outside the range of the Argentines.
Regardless, the historical outcome was excellent. Hopefully they don't try again before (a) the new carriers (Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales) are completed, and (b) the F-35 is operational (I think that's what they are going to deploy on them)...
What's up with those Scots anyway? They seem rather bent on economic self-immolation...
Healey
Hobo Jungle
Re: Hobo Jungle
Well, that still left them lots of loiter time, some 900 miles worth. The problem was it was very unhealthy to loiter. They only seemed to figure out a concentration rather than a piss and dribble for one day, which was one day of disaster after disaster for the task force.
Still and all, nothing like relying on a limited stores load having to be brought forward thousands of miles, which was the limitation on the entire operation and a severe one. It's a very instructional exercise to go through the day-by-day, marvel at the behind-the-scenes players (like the effing Israelis, go figure!) but the advantage was really all to the Args, projecting a landbased force onto a selfcontained limited sea-force. They were thankfully too tactically inept to understand the basic rules of warfare, especially the principle of concentration.
Regarding the happy Scots (about 1/3rd of my family is lowland Scot, so I hear all about this from the "source"-Grin!), there is a certain amount of noise to be credited to the election rhetoric, which is rather loud in the UK because the period is so thankfully short. One thing is the SNP, which was defeated pretty soundly in the "divorce referendum" Glasgow wanting to separate and Edinburgh wanting to remain in the Union. It was pretty soundly defeated actually, just blown up by the Americans who still sympathise with those poor oppressed Scots, much like they did with the Northern Irish during the Troubles, not having any idea of reality East of the Atlantic, just rhetoric.
The SNP figured North Sea oil would float an independent Scotland, but the flatten of oil prices and the discovery/exploitability of a huge South Channel (read English and probably Welsh as the extent is explored) dome has rather changed that complexion radically. Now the interest is forwarding Scottish domestic interests and influence in Whitehall rather than national interests, now that the monies for a national structure might not really be there out of the North Sea for the foreseeable. Bigger still is the uneasiness of the EU, who are watching to see if the UK is going to go to referendum over exiting the EU. The UK is a much more solid financial force in the EU (More again than the US press gives credit for). Britain is not as destitute as the Americans would like to patronise and feel so very sorry for.
What form the next government takes, a clear Tory win or some sort of consortium, isn't clear but the next year will be very interesting to watch as whoever it might be moves and the agenda unfolds.
Still and all, nothing like relying on a limited stores load having to be brought forward thousands of miles, which was the limitation on the entire operation and a severe one. It's a very instructional exercise to go through the day-by-day, marvel at the behind-the-scenes players (like the effing Israelis, go figure!) but the advantage was really all to the Args, projecting a landbased force onto a selfcontained limited sea-force. They were thankfully too tactically inept to understand the basic rules of warfare, especially the principle of concentration.
Regarding the happy Scots (about 1/3rd of my family is lowland Scot, so I hear all about this from the "source"-Grin!), there is a certain amount of noise to be credited to the election rhetoric, which is rather loud in the UK because the period is so thankfully short. One thing is the SNP, which was defeated pretty soundly in the "divorce referendum" Glasgow wanting to separate and Edinburgh wanting to remain in the Union. It was pretty soundly defeated actually, just blown up by the Americans who still sympathise with those poor oppressed Scots, much like they did with the Northern Irish during the Troubles, not having any idea of reality East of the Atlantic, just rhetoric.
The SNP figured North Sea oil would float an independent Scotland, but the flatten of oil prices and the discovery/exploitability of a huge South Channel (read English and probably Welsh as the extent is explored) dome has rather changed that complexion radically. Now the interest is forwarding Scottish domestic interests and influence in Whitehall rather than national interests, now that the monies for a national structure might not really be there out of the North Sea for the foreseeable. Bigger still is the uneasiness of the EU, who are watching to see if the UK is going to go to referendum over exiting the EU. The UK is a much more solid financial force in the EU (More again than the US press gives credit for). Britain is not as destitute as the Americans would like to patronise and feel so very sorry for.
What form the next government takes, a clear Tory win or some sort of consortium, isn't clear but the next year will be very interesting to watch as whoever it might be moves and the agenda unfolds.
Re: Hobo Jungle
Thanks for that Sarge, very informative. We've been hearing about North Sea "peak oil" being rather far behind in the rearview, and the dire consequences for the UK thereof...one wonders when (not if) it will ever run out, or is that further fanciful thinking by the doomsayers. Maybe it will last longer as world demand declines and supply rises.
If you get the chance, pick up a copy of Air War South Atlantic by Ethell/Price...a great read on the doings out and about the Falklands.
Healey
If you get the chance, pick up a copy of Air War South Atlantic by Ethell/Price...a great read on the doings out and about the Falklands.
Healey
Re: Hobo Jungle
Healey:
Not an exhaustive list of the issues this time round, but gives an idea and is rather illustrative of the perspective difference (perhaps a better word would be "gulf"-Grin!) on either side of the Puddle.
I'll make a recommendation back to you; pick up a copy of Sandy Woodward's "One Hundred Days". He was the commander in-theatre. The book is not your usual military history for military enthusiasts with lots of exciting combat accounts and perhaps testosterone-fueled interpretations as to why what happened, but the discussion by the commander who was lucky to even see the light of day on occasion whilst spending weeks in a combat control centre and meetings with department and field commands thrashing out the boring bits like pace of logistics, balancing timetable to resources, and all that very exciting stuff. The tactical, strategic, and logistical balance (all important to truly understanding the events) is brought into consideration, so as to perhaps bring some of the more exciting conclusions into perspective if not question. Your brain will enjoy the exercise, and its a good example of what brings an analysis from what otherwise is a series of good and ripping yarns.
Not an exhaustive list of the issues this time round, but gives an idea and is rather illustrative of the perspective difference (perhaps a better word would be "gulf"-Grin!) on either side of the Puddle.
I'll make a recommendation back to you; pick up a copy of Sandy Woodward's "One Hundred Days". He was the commander in-theatre. The book is not your usual military history for military enthusiasts with lots of exciting combat accounts and perhaps testosterone-fueled interpretations as to why what happened, but the discussion by the commander who was lucky to even see the light of day on occasion whilst spending weeks in a combat control centre and meetings with department and field commands thrashing out the boring bits like pace of logistics, balancing timetable to resources, and all that very exciting stuff. The tactical, strategic, and logistical balance (all important to truly understanding the events) is brought into consideration, so as to perhaps bring some of the more exciting conclusions into perspective if not question. Your brain will enjoy the exercise, and its a good example of what brings an analysis from what otherwise is a series of good and ripping yarns.
Re: Hobo Jungle
Well, today was a great day.
I buzzed the MGB over to Hanover and we put it up on a rack and let the experts go over it, look for the source of a rather obvious oil leak, and see what they could see regarding general condition. Judgement passed, and I got a good solid car with no unexpected surprises. I was actually surprised at how positive the sounds were, so I'm well pleased especially for the money. Turned out the oil leak seems to be an overfilled transmission, so might have gotten away with it.
A lovely day spent fixing a couple simple things, like a shifter boot on the bell-housing that was well past it, then a few hours buzzing around the countryside up and back to Hanover and testing a few things out locally.
Some cars fight you tooth and nail, but this one seems to be a happy car, well maintained and cared for by the previous owner, so let the playvalue commence...
It has a lovely tone with just a little Weber pop-n-blow when you let off the throttle. I'm a happy bunny!
C'mon, Healey, get that Sprite out and lets terrorise the countryside!
I buzzed the MGB over to Hanover and we put it up on a rack and let the experts go over it, look for the source of a rather obvious oil leak, and see what they could see regarding general condition. Judgement passed, and I got a good solid car with no unexpected surprises. I was actually surprised at how positive the sounds were, so I'm well pleased especially for the money. Turned out the oil leak seems to be an overfilled transmission, so might have gotten away with it.
A lovely day spent fixing a couple simple things, like a shifter boot on the bell-housing that was well past it, then a few hours buzzing around the countryside up and back to Hanover and testing a few things out locally.
Some cars fight you tooth and nail, but this one seems to be a happy car, well maintained and cared for by the previous owner, so let the playvalue commence...
It has a lovely tone with just a little Weber pop-n-blow when you let off the throttle. I'm a happy bunny!
C'mon, Healey, get that Sprite out and lets terrorise the countryside!
Re: Hobo Jungle
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:rogruth wrote:Will the clowns return?
Rufus,
I think your present avatar is scarier, at first glace, than the clown. BUT--------
roger
I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH
I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH
Re: Hobo Jungle
sarge wrote:Well, today was a great day.
I buzzed the MGB over to Hanover and we put it up on a rack and let the experts go over it, look for the source of a rather obvious oil leak, and see what they could see regarding general condition. Judgement passed, and I got a good solid car with no unexpected surprises. I was actually surprised at how positive the sounds were, so I'm well pleased especially for the money. Turned out the oil leak seems to be an overfilled transmission, so might have gotten away with it.
A lovely day spent fixing a couple simple things, like a shifter boot on the bell-housing that was well past it, then a few hours buzzing around the countryside up and back to Hanover and testing a few things out locally.
Some cars fight you tooth and nail, but this one seems to be a happy car, well maintained and cared for by the previous owner, so let the playvalue commence...
It has a lovely tone with just a little Weber pop-n-blow when you let off the throttle. I'm a happy bunny!
C'mon, Healey, get that Sprite out and lets terrorise the countryside!
Sounds good Sarge...glad to hear everything checked out. Main seals can be an issue with the A-series engine, and before I had those replaced I thought the garage might be designated a Super-Fund site. It still has some leakage, but much diminished.
I sent in a registration for the Triumph club-meet in Westminster the end of June...going to try to make it if the calendar doesn't get balled up. The good news is it is all down-hill from the house to the Farm Museum (venue), so no excuses...
Wow, the Lib-Democrats got crushed in the UK elections...Tories and SNP the big winners.
Healey
Re: Hobo Jungle
I'll send my $20 in, too, and see if we can meet up and laugh at all the faux-uppy-crusty Hyacinth Bucket women in their capri's riding their beleagered husband's T because they couldn't actually drive it home if he finally had a stroke from the nagging (Grin!).
I got spoken to like a dustman when I stopped off to pick up a bell-housing boot last night (still with my car-working clothes on, so let the condescension begin!) by one of them who was standing outside Merrymans. She wouldn't actually go in the shop building, no doubt much to the relief of her husband who was happily enjoying the respite. It was a hilarious stereotype played out for real.
Interesting result of the election. The Tories actually picked up seats (much to the annoyance of the American press
). The real news is Labour in Scotland being virtually thrown out in favour of SNP who in spite of analysis in the US are not currently in for independence which is why they won so big. They targeted Labour (who traditionally have been very successful in Scotland) with the "Red Tories Out" campaign and won big on taking Scottish interests to Whitehall rather than breaking up the Union (at least for now). The next fun thing to watch is whether Cameron and the Tories will go for an exit from the EU, which SNP is adamantly against. If they do, you might see a shift back to a Scottish exit from the Union attempt, for the EU issue is one of great opposition between the Conservatives and the SNP.
So, pretty much the world has changed by remaining the same.
And only six weeks instead of dam near two years of greed, graft, and the lobbies buying the usual two acceptable (to them, of course) payrolled candidates from which to "choose". Gawd!
I got spoken to like a dustman when I stopped off to pick up a bell-housing boot last night (still with my car-working clothes on, so let the condescension begin!) by one of them who was standing outside Merrymans. She wouldn't actually go in the shop building, no doubt much to the relief of her husband who was happily enjoying the respite. It was a hilarious stereotype played out for real.
Interesting result of the election. The Tories actually picked up seats (much to the annoyance of the American press
). The real news is Labour in Scotland being virtually thrown out in favour of SNP who in spite of analysis in the US are not currently in for independence which is why they won so big. They targeted Labour (who traditionally have been very successful in Scotland) with the "Red Tories Out" campaign and won big on taking Scottish interests to Whitehall rather than breaking up the Union (at least for now). The next fun thing to watch is whether Cameron and the Tories will go for an exit from the EU, which SNP is adamantly against. If they do, you might see a shift back to a Scottish exit from the Union attempt, for the EU issue is one of great opposition between the Conservatives and the SNP.So, pretty much the world has changed by remaining the same.
And only six weeks instead of dam near two years of greed, graft, and the lobbies buying the usual two acceptable (to them, of course) payrolled candidates from which to "choose". Gawd!
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John Webster
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:29 am
- Location: Painesville, Ohio
Re: Hobo Jungle
Congratulations on the MGB Sarge. Sounds like you had a fine old time.
You begin flying with a full bag of luck and an empty bag for experience. The object is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Re: Hobo Jungle
Thanks for the kind words, John. It's a fine old B-road bomber, and a very enjoyable lesson in how far enthusiasts' motors have come in our lifetime. The B has the smell, tight longstroke gearbox, un-powered steering with all the immediacy, brakes you need to foot pretty huskily, all that feel of machine and road. Then you go back and drive something like my modern Mini, with the light feel on all the controls, and you get a real contrast of what is lovely about the old ways and what is (really) good about a proper motor of today.
There is no lack for driving enjoyment here, and it is such an indescribably great feeling to be there again after all the "practical" vehicles that commuting and a young son made such proper choices at the time. They served me well, but it's so good to be back...
There is no lack for driving enjoyment here, and it is such an indescribably great feeling to be there again after all the "practical" vehicles that commuting and a young son made such proper choices at the time. They served me well, but it's so good to be back...
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Rufus T. Firefly
- Posts: 42130
- Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:52 am
- Location: To be Determined
Re: Hobo Jungle
sarge wrote:Interesting result of the election. The Tories actually picked up seats (much to the annoyance of the American press
It was most entertaining (hilarious at times - best thing on the tube that night!) to watch the election returns on the BBC News; the results were such that one of the commentators was asking about how one of the pundits wanted his hat seasoned - that tends to indicate to me that pundits are the same world over - frequently wrong and at minimum full of hot substances,
Also found it very interesting watching one of the concession speeches where they had all 6(?) of the candidates on teh stage at the same time along with only a few other folks and officials. Proceedings were rather refreshing - I'd forgotten too much...............[/quote]
Quite frankly, I’m against people who give vent to their loquacity by extraneous bombastic circumlocution.
Re: Hobo Jungle
Rufus,
Is your avatar now a combo of the previous one and a clown?
Is your avatar now a combo of the previous one and a clown?
roger
I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH
I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH
-
Rufus T. Firefly
- Posts: 42130
- Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:52 am
- Location: To be Determined
Re: Hobo Jungle
rogruth wrote:Rufus,
Is your avatar now a combo of the previous one and a clown?
No. Just another Maori working on a haka.....
Quite frankly, I’m against people who give vent to their loquacity by extraneous bombastic circumlocution.
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MurphOnMillerAve
- Posts: 18489
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:18 pm
- Location: Kennywood Park
- Contact:
Re: Hobo Jungle
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:rogruth wrote:Rufus,
Is your avatar now a combo of the previous one and a clown?
No. Just another Maori working on a haka.....
Well, he looks happy or that somebody just grabbed something they shouldn't have.
Re: Hobo Jungle
MurphOnMillerAve wrote:Well, he looks happy or that somebody just grabbed something they shouldn't have.
...or both.
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