vaccine

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Thanks. I tried googling it and the stuff was pretty opaque to someone not in the field. It made the DCS instructions look "EZ to read".

Hurts my head to read this stuff! Crosses over a good bit from my primary fields, so I have to grind a bit at the jargon and acronyms,

It looks like it's been around for about 5+ years? Also, the efficacy question seemed to be linked to delivery. Getting it where it needed to be and intact seemed to be a real issue.

Roughly at least publicly. Delivery of gene therapy and related has been an issue from day 1. Stability and getting it inside cells before degradation or clearance is a challenge. Drug delivery is a huge balancing act between targeting & delivery, clearance, degradation, and tox.

[Neil]

Impossible to know if there will be long term side effects. Likely not as mRNA has a short half-life, even the modified stuff and human beings don't have enzymes to convert mRNA into DNA so genomic effects are unlikely. But until we have years of followup, we won't know for sure. But given the choice between near term disability and death due to coronavirus and uncertainties over long term side effects of the new vaccines, I'm going with the vaccine, when it becomes available at the hospital where I work.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Impossible to know if there will be long term side effects. Likely not as mRNA has a short half-life, even the modified stuff and human beings don't have enzymes to convert mRNA into DNA so genomic effects are unlikely. But until we have years of followup, we won't know for sure. But given the choice between near term disability and death due to coronavirus and uncertainties over long term side effects of the new vaccines, I'm going with the vaccine, when it becomes available at the hospital where I work.

Can't disagree when you balance everything out. Not concerned about mRNA into DNA, but mitochondrial and other translational effects down the line. We'll probably learn more next year. Opportunity here to establish this class of drug is huge.

[chuck]

Rufus said:

Drug delivery is a huge balancing act between targeting & delivery, clearance, degradation, and tox.

There are a number of horror stories in medical technology of large amounts of money being flushed down the toilet on what at first glance "seemed like a good idea at the time". Inhalable insulin almost broke Pfizer's back. I guess the silver lining on that one was the basic research lead to a mechanism to effectively deliver anthrax. Win/Win

Neil's comment:

But given the choice between near term disability and death due to coronavirus and uncertainties over long term side effects of the new vaccines, I'm going with the vaccine, when it becomes available at the hospital where I work.

I'm with you on this one. We would be in the second/third tier so we won't see it till maybe spring? I have no problems with vaccines per se.

[HONDO74]

AstraZeneca manufacturing error clouds vaccine study results
https://www.ky3.com/2020/11/25/astrazen ... y-results/

LONDON (AP) — AstraZeneca and Oxford University on Wednesday acknowledged a manufacturing error that is raising questions about preliminary results of their experimental COVID-19 vaccine.

A statement describing the error came days after the company and the university described the shots as “highly effective” and made no mention of why some study participants didn’t receive as much vaccine in the first of two shots as expected.

In a surprise, the group of volunteers that got a lower dose seemed to be much better protected than the volunteers who got two full doses. In the low-dose group, AstraZeneca said, the vaccine appeared to be 90% effective. In the group that got two full doses, the vaccine appeared to be 62% effective. Combined, the drugmakers said the vaccine appeared to be 70% effective. But the way in which the results were arrived at and reported by the companies has led to pointed questions from experts.

The partial results announced Monday are from large ongoing studies in the U.K. and Brazil designed to determine the optimal dose of vaccine, as well as examine safety and effectiveness. Multiple combinations and doses were tried in the volunteers. They were compared to others who were given a meningitis vaccine or a saline shot.
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[HONDO74]

Covid-19: Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine judged safe for use in UK from next week
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55145696

The UK has become the first country in the world to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine, paving the way for mass vaccination.

Britain's medicines regulator, the MHRA, says the jab, which offers up to 95% protection against Covid-19 illness, is safe to be rolled out.

The first doses are already on their way to the UK, with 800,000 due in the coming days, Pfizer said.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said the NHS will contact people about jabs.

Elderly people in care homes and care home staff have been placed top of the priority list, followed by over-80s and health and care staff.

But because hospitals already have the facilities to store the vaccine at -70C, as required, the very first vaccinations are likely to take place there - for care home staff, NHS staff and patients - so none of the vaccine is wasted.

A further 648 deaths within 28 days of a positive Covid-19 test were recorded in the UK on Wednesday, with another 16,170 cases reported.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson urged the public not to get "carried away with over optimism or falling into the naive belief that our struggle is over".

He told a Downing Street news conference that, while the "searchlights of science" had created a working vaccine, significant logistical challenges remained.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Covid-19: Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine judged safe for use in UK from next week

The UK has become the first country in the world to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine, paving the way for mass vaccination.

Watched a bit of that this morning. They're catching a bit of flak on this as being rushed through the review process and I"m hearing words like "Rubber stamped".

.... not to get "carried away with over optimism or falling into the naive belief that our struggle is over".

Nicely stated; long ways to go........

[rogruth]

SO. What should I do when the time comes? I have an aversion to needles but if really necessary can struggle through. Blood tests are especially
difficult. A dentist can shoot up my mouth for hours and there is no problem. When I read the above info from people whose opinion I highly
respect I wonder if it will be safe. Will the problems with the vaccine be eclipsed by the effects of Covid? Will the vaccine be a one shot and
it's over like for small pox? Or will it be every year? I have only had one flu shot, in 1970, and got the flu. Oh yeah. I'm also allergic to eggs
and bananas. I have also said several times that I am 86.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

When I read the above info from people whose opinion I highly respect I wonder if it will be safe.

Appears to be so far with all those that have gotten it to date. Long term will be off in the future not unlike most if not all drugs.

Will the problems with the vaccine be eclipsed by the effects of Covid? Will the vaccine be a one shot and
it's over like for small pox? Or will it be every year?

What problems with the vaccine? Zero so far vs. your getting the virus.

Heard this morning that this virus is not like flu that is a moving target, although that's not 100% so should be a 1 shot. However, I have not heard anything regarding what the durability of the vaccine is either

I'm also allergic to eggs and bananas. I have also said several times that I am 86.

Again, not like the flu vaccine - no eggs involved.

[chuck]

respect I wonder if it will be safe. Will the problems with the vaccine be eclipsed by the effects of Covid? Will the vaccine be a one shot and
it's over like for small pox? Or will it be every year? I have only had one flu shot, in 1970, and got the flu.

Two shots, 30 days apart. Can't mix the vaccines, aka both have to be from the same company.

Best I could find on "how it feels"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/health/coronavirus-vaccine-volunteer-side-effects/index.html

Blood tests are especially difficult.

This is very much like the flu shot. Some people have complained of a sore arm or some fatigue. Second shot is more problematic. It seems to trigger the immune response (which is a good thing, you know it's working) and can result in a couple of days of discomfort.

I can't speak for you but I will definitely be getting the shot as soon as I am able. I'm 68 and will probably be "eligible" in late winter/early spring. If you have concerns, talk to your primary care physician.

Re efficacy of the flu shot and you getting the flu AFTER getting the vaccine, most flu shots are at best 60%, many as low as 30%. This is because of the variables involved with the flu and creating a vaccine to combat it. In many cases they guessed wrong on the strain and the vaccine is just a poor match.

The article referenced gives some details on how an mNRA vaccine works. BTW, the testing is now underway on adolescents for the vaccines and then it will be expanded to toddlers last. It's entirely possible that clearance will be available for all age groups by mid summer.

[rogruth]

Thanks, Rufus and Chuck.
Most of our info comes from TV and IMO is rather incomplete. I think we have easier to understand and find info here on MTJ.
For instance, Rufus listed Covid symptoms. I had not seen a list like it anyplace else.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Most of our info comes from TV and IMO is rather incomplete.

Suggest that you might want to watch one of the business news channels. They tend to be better informed and present more information.

[HONDO74]

CVS, Walgreens get ready to give out coronavirus vaccines
https://www.ky3.com/2020/12/04/cvs-walg ... -vaccines/

(CNN) – Two U.S. pharmacy chains are preparing to give out COVID vaccines as soon as there’s a green light from the Food and Drug Administration.

Health care workers and long-term care facility residents will be the first to get the vaccinations from CVS and Walgreens.

“Our plan is to be ready to go as early as Dec. 15, waiting for the state approvals,” said Dr. Troy Brennan, the chief medical officer at CVS Health.

In October, the Trump administration announced agreements with CVS and Walgreens to vaccinate residents of long-term care facilities nationwide.

The pharmacy chains already have a list of those organizations.

“We’ve basically got 31,000 locations where we’re going to have to be doing the vaccination and that’s about 2 million patients,” according to Brennan. “We’ll know who it is; where they are and how many patients there are.”

CVS plans to send teams to each of the facilities three times in the coming months. An average team will consist of two vaccinators and one support staffer.

Brennan said they’re already working out details for vaccine distribution within each state.

“Once we get into sort of general distribution, I suspect that not only ourselves and Walgreens, but there’s going to be a number of other pharmacy chains and grocers who will be involved in it,” he said.

“I think that using all those various outlets, we’re going to have very good penetration across the United States.”

[HONDO74]

How COVID-19 vaccines will get from the factory to your local pharmacy
It’s going to take a lot of dry ice and freezers
https://www.ky3.com/2020/12/04/how-covi ... -pharmacy/

[Rufus T. Firefly]

How COVID-19 vaccines will get from the factory to your local pharmacy
It’s going to take a lot of dry ice and freezers

Article in C&EN on dry ice supply issues....