What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

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G3750
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:25 pm

chuck wrote:Squares are 1'x1'? This makes the downtown area about 11'x12'? Are the tracks all on "street" level or are some "underground" like Chicago/NY or are some hidden behind flats?

Can you scale the dept store down in terms of footprint while retaining the height?

Can you cheat the actual auditorium of the theater into the back ground while making the lobby the main focus? The last of the original "big" theaters in Ann Arbor is arranged with the main auditorium running parallel to the street and the lobby/entrance are perpendicular to the street. There is a two story row of shops/apartments that are between the theater and the street.


Chuck,

All good questions. Yes, the squares are 1'x1'. Tracks are on 1 level except for the River Route, which is an independent loop of track running about 9" below the main level of Steubenville. About 75% of its length will be underground (tunnels) with 25% along the river bank.

Here's the current thinking (diagram). These are some major changes in my thinking over the past 24 hours.
  • I've eliminated the mountain tunnel at the top of the layout. It has been replaced by a smaller hill that reflects the area more prototypically (I hope).
  • I made the track changes indicated in the first rough sketch.
  • The ground will slope up from the bottom of the layout towards the hill and the background. I expect the slope to be between 3" and 6".
  • Panhandle 1 featured the intersection of Market Street with 4th Street. I've added 5th Street and 6th Street.


20180223 Steubenville Planning Thoughts 2.jpg
20180223 Steubenville Planning Thoughts 2.jpg (427.53 KiB) Viewed 2951 times


I'm going to have to do something about the footprint of The Hub department store. A person I met at the Strasburg 2-Rail Show has a resin casting for a 5 story building that would look fantastic. Unfortunately, it is 2' long x 1' high (96 s' x 96 s' x 48 s'). A 2' x 2' building takes up a heck of a lot of space. I'm rethinking that. Same deal for the Grand Theatre; I want to conserve foot print, but I'm dubious about the current commercially available offerings for movie theatres.

Other buildings in downtown Steubenville are still TBD, although there will be an S.S. Kresge (River Leaf Models). Steubenville has a number of buildings constructed in the late 1890s-1920s. There are many kits featuring buildings of that era. In addition I have a number of photographs of these buildings (taken in 2005). These have tons of architectural character and diversity.

I decided to include the Federal Paperboard factory off 4th Street. It has a large brick smokestack. I may or may not keep the siding at its current length past this factory. If I can think of another industry to put there, I'll keep it at its present length. If not, I'll shorten it and do something else with the space.

Moving to the north (top) of the layout, I've put the Steubenville PRR station in its correct location (on 6th Street). Footprint is approximate; I am trying to acquire the actual station plans. The small hill in front of the backdrop will rise rather rapidly. I see it being 12"-18" tall. Over the tunnel portal, I will use an HO model of the Bates House to force perspective (uphill and receding). At the western end of 6th Street, I will have Market Street turn right and run it behind an outcropping of the hill to hide its termination from view.

So that is the current thinking. Comments and suggestions are welcome!

George
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby rogruth » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:55 pm

Many different types of small industry can go along the river line.
As you know the hills behind downtown are pretty steep so they could use forced perspective areas very nicely.
My opinion is that you do not need to have full scale buildings in the downtown area. Do what looks right
for you and don't worry about being perfect.
Have fun.
roger

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:25 pm

rogruth wrote:Many different types of small industry can go along the river line.
As you know the hills behind downtown are pretty steep so they could use forced perspective areas very nicely.
My opinion is that you do not need to have full scale buildings in the downtown area. Do what looks right
for you and don't worry about being perfect.
Have fun.


Thanks, Roger. You're right. I'm going to have to take a number of liberties with accuracy. That's a given. :lol:
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby chuck » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:55 pm

My opinion is that you do not need to have full scale buildings in the downtown area. Do what looks right
for you and don't worry about being perfect.


Yes, use selective compression and or just trim stuff down. You want it to give the impression of these structures while not overwhelming the layout. You might even fudge the geography a little if that gets stuff to fit better.

If the original dept store had ten windows on a side, slim it down to six or seven. See if you can pick out the principal features that made the building unique and focus on those.

Same for the theater. It's the marquee that really counts and you can squeeze or shift everything else. I've been in SE Michigan since 1970 and it was only last year I realized the actual alignment of the Michigan Theater and the store fronts that mask it.
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Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:13 pm

chuck wrote:
My opinion is that you do not need to have full scale buildings in the downtown area. Do what looks right
for you and don't worry about being perfect.


Yes, use selective compression and or just trim stuff down. You want it to give the impression of these structures while not overwhelming the layout. You might even fudge the geography a little if that gets stuff to fit better.

If the original dept store had ten windows on a side, slim it down to six or seven. See if you can pick out the principal features that made the building unique and focus on those.

Same for the theater. It's the marquee that really counts and you can squeeze or shift everything else. I've been in SE Michigan since 1970 and it was only last year I realized the actual alignment of the Michigan Theater and the store fronts that mask it.


Yes, thank you. You are correct.

It may seem inconsequential, but right now the changes I'm happiest with are:
  • Finding the prototypically correct location for the PRR station
  • Making Market Street more accurate and playing with the smaller hill to hide its western termination.

In the future, I hope to take a photo of the layout at that end and see how well it compares to the real thing.
Downtown Steubenville.jpg
Downtown Steubenville.jpg (41.94 KiB) Viewed 2941 times


It's good to finally turn my attention to this part of the layout and get to some in-depth creative thinking. :D

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby rogruth » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:23 pm

George,
I seem to remember the crossing gates being activated by a man in a tower .
I might be wrong and it could be a different place.???
roger

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:47 pm

rogruth wrote:George,
I seem to remember the crossing gates being activated by a man in a tower .
I might be wrong and it could be a different place.???


I kinda think that as well, but my memory is hazy. I will have to research that as well as actual buildings / businesses and locations.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby rogruth » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:20 pm

That gateman, I think, activated most, if not all, of the gates in downtown.
I also recall that every crossing guard that I saw working for the Pennsy had
some disability caused by a railroad related accident.
roger

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby chuck » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:14 pm

Gateman were starting to be phased out in the late 50's/early 60's. Pearl River's main crossing at Central Avenue was 4 auto lanes wide and three tracks, a mainline, a passing track, and a siding. The gateman's "tower" was still there when we moved to Pearl River but was unused and was soon removed. There was a "shed" at street level that replaced it and in a couple of years the gates were fully automated and even the shed was removed. The tower never made much sense because of the hills blocked viewing the cars and there was a big bend in the track just south of the station that blocked views of the trains.
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:15 pm

Roger,

What railroad(s) ran on the River Route in the 1950s? I know you told me but I can't find it.

Thanks,

George
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby rogruth » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:03 am

PRR from Powhattan Point north to Youngstown and environs.
Between The PRR and the river was the W&LE/NKP/N&W .
It served the Steubenville mill and ended there .
Also served the Mingo mill moving north from the Y at Warrenton.
The south leg of the Y actually took the Wheeling and Lake Erie
to Wheeling. The W&LE ALWAYS used the periods when
marking equipment. W . & L . E .
There were also mills at Martins Ferry and at Yorkville.
Both were served by the PRR and the W&LE.
Both railroads had yards and roundhouses at Mingo.
The W&LE roundhouse did not have a turntable.
The mills had a bridge that crossed the river to the
coke plant at Follansbee, WV.
The P&WV also crossed at Mingo and the PRR
bridge that George has modeled is at Steubenville.
By the way it is actually Mingo Junction.
Probably more than you wanted or needed.
roger

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:53 am

Thank you, Roger!

So according to your explanation, I can legitimately run N&W, W.&L.E., P&WV and NKP on the River Route, right?

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby rogruth » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:40 am

G3750 wrote:Thank you, Roger!

So according to your explanation, I can legitimately run N&W, W.&L.E., P&WV and NKP on the River Route, right?

George

That might be pushing it a little but why not?
I would and have fun with it. The P&WV crossed them and the river but did not run along the river.
W&LE went to NKP in the early 1950s. They even ran some 4-8-2s on this line.
roger

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby G3750 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:25 pm

I visited the Steubenville Library today and found this in one of the books. Pretty cool.

20180306_201922_DCC Twisted Pair_0001.jpg
20180306_201922_DCC Twisted Pair_0001.jpg (913.59 KiB) Viewed 2858 times


That's all 3 bridges!

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?

Postby healey36 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:23 am

Nice photo-recap of the three bridges. Was the second bridge built atop the piers of the first, or new piers with every evolution? Definitely new piers on the third...

All this talk of Steubenville got me to poking around. Spent half a day wandering through this site:

http://www.coalcampusa.com/rustbelt/oh/oh-rustbelt.htm

Interesting with some good snaps.

Healey


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