Z 4000 problem

[ScaleCraft]

It didn't really help with identification for most people. Almost like trying to exactly define PRRs DGLE.

Having dabbled in PRR before I started NP, the real question is:

"What shade of black is Brunswick Green?"

[rogruth]

It didn't really help with identification for most people. Almost like trying to exactly define PRRs DGLE.

Having dabbled in PRR before I started NP, the real question is:

"What shade of black is Brunswick Green?"

Of course.

[ScaleCraft]

and then you get the PRR ex-spurts spouting "DGLE was only used on freight cars, Brunswick green on engines"
and the next "spurt" says DGLE was the same as Brunswick. And to make the color, 50% Brunswick, 50% weathered black. And once they've been out on the road a week, you can't tell anyway.

It's actually funny.

[rogruth]

and then you get the PRR ex-spurts spouting "DGLE was only used on freight cars, Brunswick green on engines"
and the next "spurt" says DGLE was the same as Brunswick. And to make the color, 50% Brunswick, 50% weathered black. And once they've been out on the road a week, you can't tell anyway.

It's actually funny.

I have also been told, long ago now, by a person that actually did it that all PRR switchers were black and all other locos except the ones that were
tuscan were DGLE. I have never been able to verify this but did hear it from some PRR employees in the Pittsburgh-Steubenville area.

[chuck]

DGLE wasn't so much a color as a formula for a coating that looked basically black when freshly applied with a very slight greenish tint under strong/bright lighting conditions. The black paint had metal salts added that weathered to various shades of very dark green. I think there was copper in the additives and it would sulfate when exposed to the coal smoke and UV radiation, similar to the color shift seen on copper roofing materials. The roofing starts out bright copper then turns brown, then black as it oxidizes and the starts to shift to green as it sulfates. The loco's were already black and steam loco's were particularly subject to this effect form coal smoke with high sulfur content. The PRR never painted any locomotives Brunswick Green that is what a lot of the loco's looked like after enough exposure. I've seen color photo's of engines in the yard where the shades were different on each loco depending on how old the paint job was.

[E7]

Yeah. And PRR had 4-4-4-4, 4-4-6-4, 4-6-4-4, 6-4-4-6 and 6-8-6.I probably missed something but most don't care whether it is a + or a -.
It didn't really help with identification for most people. Almost like trying to exactly define PRRs DGLE.

All the above can be explained with one 4 letter word: ANAL

What with Mikey packing it in, you might be able to get a deal on a new Z4000.

Here's something to explain:

Q1 4+6+4+4 = 18 Q2 4+4+6+4 = 18

S1 6+4+4+6 = 20 S2 6+8+6 = 20

T1 4+4+4+4 = 16

If there had been a T2, would it have had some configuration totaling 16 wheels?

[bluelinec4]

Roger
Getting back to your original problem What is the serial number of your Z4k The first two numbers identify what year it was produced

[rogruth]

Roger
Getting back to your original problem What is the serial number of your Z4k The first two numbers identify what year it was produced

First two numbers are 08. there is no dealer or repair person in this area. So it looks like it might be best to buy a new one. Shipping
would probably be $100.00 plus parts and labor.
Although MTH is closing my transformer lasted 12 years. The question is what should I get to replace it. I am 86 so if I get another Z4000
I will probably be dead before it is or not care. I do need to consider cost. I run conventional but do like the whistle/horn and bell sounds.
Any suggestions?

[Norton]

Your transformer is a newer one. Chuck found the board is available. You could try and call Midge and see if she will ship it to you. Nothing to lose. With the board just about any train repair shop should be able to swap it out. Midge 410-381-2580 ext 516, midge@mth-railking.com
Part #AD-5100001

Pete

[rogruth]

I'm sorry to say that there is NO train shop that does anything except HO and N within 150 miles.
Unfortunately I do not have the tools or the knowledge to do this kind of repair.

[ScaleCraft]

Doesn't need to be a train shop. Any HAM radio operators nearby?
Any retired Navy ET's?

[rogruth]

I appreciate everyones efforts to help but I think I will forget about repair and get a new or used transformer when I am in an area where I might find one. When I got the Z4000 I liked the way it was set up and IMO was easy to use. I have NO MTH locomotives and not much MTH rolling stock and
really did not anticipate problems with a transformer or that MTH would close. I knew people that used Lionel transformers of various types that never
had problems with them or when there were any they were easy to fix. This may show how little I know about the electronic side of the hobby.
I have some smaller transformers that I will use for a while. Who knows, I might just start packing it all up for sale. I won't build another layout
except possibly for Christmas. I haven't decided yet.

Again, thanks to everybody for the help.

[rogruth]

It would be nice to know what happened maybe to keep it from happening again.
Not too likely since no one seems to have run into the same symptoms before.

Again, thanks to all for your efforts.

[rogruth]

If anyone has any idea of what caused this problem I hope that you will post here. I really would like to know what happened.

[chuck]

Do you run any post war whistling tenders or action cars that have "vibrotors" in them (or PW open frame AC motors). These all use open frame motors and the field coil can hold a charge when there is an interrupt. Without the back emf from the armature you can get a serious voltage spike. The Z-4000 is an electronic switching power supply. A serious spike or a series of smaller spikes over time can cause the solid state devices on the main board to fail. This can't/doesn't happen if you stick to all modern equipment with DC can motors.

Did you have any TSP/surge suppressors between the transformer and the track? These would have clamped the spike before it could get back into the transformer and affect its solid state devices. The fuses protect against over current (aka short circuits). They don't do anything against a surge coming from a device on the low voltage side.