Williams Electric Trains

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G3750
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Re: Williams Electric Trains

Postby G3750 » Mon May 25, 2020 8:26 am

chuck wrote:You can build a scale model where all you intend to do is look at it and get the three dimensions 100% accurate. It isn't meant to do anything except look nice. If you want the thing to work/actually function you have to start making compromises in either scale fidelity or performance/behavior. If nothing else, the models are usually made of completely different materials and assembled in different ways.

We have to accept this with our toy trains if for no other reason that few of us have the real estate to support prototypical curves/grades. Trucks centers are adjusted to allow trains to run on non prototypical curves. The toy trains have completely different centers of gravity because the method of driving the wheels is nothing like the prototype. Fricative forces are higher/different because of these compromises.

If your 70 tonner pulls 8-11 cars, great. If it can pull more, all the better for you. If it pulls less than six, c'est la vie. At least it looks good doing it.
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Hear, hear!!

Let me second Chuck and add his name to those who contribute greatly to the value of this forum.

MTJ may not be the biggest forum I subscribe to, but it is, in a great many ways, the most valuable. I always get useful answers here, mixed with support and a sense of comradeship, kindness, and well-being. And that can't be said for some other places.

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webenda
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Re: Williams Electric Trains

Postby webenda » Mon May 25, 2020 2:22 pm

bluelinec4 wrote:On the flat it was pulling 15 Atlas 55 ton hoppers without a problem. The engine pulled 5 of those hoppers reliably on any grade at the club

Thank you Ben. Useful information to add to our database on this engine.
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Re: Williams Electric Trains

Postby rogruth » Mon May 25, 2020 2:28 pm

George has said again what I have said many times about MTJ.
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Roy
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Re: Williams Electric Trains

Postby Roy » Tue May 26, 2020 10:06 am

bluelinec4 wrote:As soon as [the WBB 70 tonner] hit any type of grade it started burning rubber and spinning its wheels

When looking at the side of the engine, do the trucks rock up and down freely? Any resistance here will tend to take the weight off the driven wheels, when entering into an up grade.
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webenda
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Re: Williams Electric Trains

Postby webenda » Tue May 26, 2020 4:12 pm

Roy wrote:
bluelinec4 wrote:As soon as [the WBB 70 tonner] hit any type of grade it started burning rubber and spinning its wheels

When looking at the side of the engine, do the trucks rock up and down freely? Any resistance here will tend to take the weight off the driven wheels, when entering into an up grade.

The trucks rock up and down freely on mine.
Image
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Roy
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Re: Williams Electric Trains

Postby Roy » Tue May 26, 2020 6:29 pm

Good illustration. It looks like the front truck has greater freedom of motion.

It's a nice-looking model. At the least, I'd like to see it get all it's axles powered, to maximize it's tractive effort.
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webenda
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Re: Williams Electric Trains

Postby webenda » Wed May 27, 2020 3:06 am

Roy wrote:At the least, I'd like to see it get all it's axles powered, to maximize it's tractive effort.

How would you do it? Bachmann's HO and N scale GE 70 ton switchers have all wheel drive but no third rail pick-up using the space where the axle drive gear would go. You could grind down the gear case to make room for a chain drive between axles. Well, not just you, any body that has to have all axles driven. As for me, if it will pull and push three cars, I will be happy as a clam.

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Roy
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Re: Williams Electric Trains

Postby Roy » Wed May 27, 2020 7:32 pm

Roy wrote:At the least, I'd like to see it get all it's axles powered, to maximize it's tractive effort.
webenda wrote:How would you do it? Bachmann's HO and N scale GE 70 ton switchers have all wheel drive but no third rail pick-up using the space where the axle drive gear would go. You could grind down the gear case to make room for a chain drive between axles.

Again, my first thought is to use another worm gear set on the other end of the motor. I realize this requires replacing the motor with an identical one with an armature shaft that extends from both ends, getting gears that may not be available from Bachmann, and some non-trivial conversion work. If one can do those things, it shouldn't be too hard to rearrange the third rail pickup. The chain drive possibility also occurred to me.

I'm still scratching my head, over the fully under-floor drive. Does Bachmann expect three-railers to fully detail the cab interior, and engine compartment? Or, buy the mechanism for open trolleys, etc.? It does look like the truck side frames can be easily switched out, via easily-accessed mounting screws.

As I said before, there are a lot of drive possibilities. One idea is to remove the motor from the truck, but keep the original worm gearing. Get another gear set for the other axle, which appears to be swedged to mount a worm wheel. Make a double worm shaft with a pulley, to be belt-driven by a frame-mounted motor, similar to Lionel-Athearn HO.

I haven't even touched on backdrivable gears, here. I wouldn't build a powered model with a non-backdrivable mechanism. But, in this case, I'm focused on maximizing the 70 tonner's pulling power. Preferably, with the least cost and work.

webenda wrote:As for me, if it will pull and push three cars, I will be happy as a clam.

I, too, prefer being a pig satisfied, to Socrates dissatisfied. But, three lightweight modern cars isn't even an hors d'oeuvre, for me.
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