What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
This is the first post on the new version of the PRR Panhandle.
Here's what the old train room looked like when we took our last look on Thursday, May 4.
We moved into the new house on Friday, May 5. Before the movers began hauling boxes, here's what the new train room looked like:
And the workshop:
George
Here's what the old train room looked like when we took our last look on Thursday, May 4.
We moved into the new house on Friday, May 5. Before the movers began hauling boxes, here's what the new train room looked like:
And the workshop:
George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."
—Katy Faust
—Katy Faust
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
Tabula Rassa, good luck. Last photo, what is that in the room off the main room? It looks like a water fountain?
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
chuck wrote:Tabula Rassa, good luck. Last photo, what is that in the room off the main room? It looks like a water fountain?
Thank you!
That's a laundry tub. It's inside the furnace room.
George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."
—Katy Faust
—Katy Faust
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
I've been able to gather my thoughts about the new layout.
The Prototype - Background & History
This layout is my attempt to model the 7 miles of the PRR Panhandle that ran through the northern panhandle of West Virginia and Steubenville, OH. The Panhandle was a second mainline of the Pennsylvania Railroad that ran from Pittsburgh to St. Louis. It existed from 1848 through 1995. Grif Teller immortalized the double track bridge across the Ohio River in the painting “Crossroads of Commerce” which appeared in the 1953 Pennsylvania Railroad Calendar. That bridge still stands and the track using it serves Weirton Steel (now Arcelor Mittal) and the brick refractories and businesses on the New Cumberland secondary. Unfortunately from Weirton Junction through Burgettstown and points east, the track has been pulled up and the right of way has been converted to a hiking / bike trail.
I grew up in Weirton, WV in the 1950s & 1960s. I left in 1978, but still have family and other ties in the area. The PRR double-track bridge at MP 42.11 was always a source of fascination for me, even as a small child going to Steubenville with my parents and grandparents. However, it was not until I saw Teller’s painting (in the late 1990s) that I realized what I wanted to model.
Vital Statistics of the proposed Layout:
Differences between Version 1.0 and Version 2.0
I feel that the increase in size (primarily length) will contribute to a more accurate representation of the area. Panhandle 1.0 was an ambitious design crippled by limited space. Panhandle 2.0 is similar in its major design aspects, but the additional space will allow those features to be separated by scenery. My intention is to avoid crowding layout elements and give real sense of distance between the features.
Construction Goals:
Operational Goals:
Electrical Goals
The Panhandle was originally conceived (back in 1997) as a conventional layout. In 2005, I decided to install TMCC, but was influenced by the arrival of DCS. After trying a DCS/TMCC combination during construction, I decided TMCC was the direction to pursue. In 2007, the change was made to solely TMCC. Home run wiring and light bulbs (as block power indicators) were retained in the design. The electrical plan divides the layout into 8 blocks or power districts – 4 mainline and 4 yards - with the ability to individually control power to the yards. The mainline (districts 1-3) and yards (districts 5-8) are all command controlled. District 4 (River Route) can be operated in either command or conventional mode.
Much more detail to follow, but those are my goals and thinking as I take the first steps down the road.
As always, your thoughts, suggestions, and questions are welcome.
George
The Prototype - Background & History
This layout is my attempt to model the 7 miles of the PRR Panhandle that ran through the northern panhandle of West Virginia and Steubenville, OH. The Panhandle was a second mainline of the Pennsylvania Railroad that ran from Pittsburgh to St. Louis. It existed from 1848 through 1995. Grif Teller immortalized the double track bridge across the Ohio River in the painting “Crossroads of Commerce” which appeared in the 1953 Pennsylvania Railroad Calendar. That bridge still stands and the track using it serves Weirton Steel (now Arcelor Mittal) and the brick refractories and businesses on the New Cumberland secondary. Unfortunately from Weirton Junction through Burgettstown and points east, the track has been pulled up and the right of way has been converted to a hiking / bike trail.
I grew up in Weirton, WV in the 1950s & 1960s. I left in 1978, but still have family and other ties in the area. The PRR double-track bridge at MP 42.11 was always a source of fascination for me, even as a small child going to Steubenville with my parents and grandparents. However, it was not until I saw Teller’s painting (in the late 1990s) that I realized what I wanted to model.
Vital Statistics of the proposed Layout:
- Size & Shape: Folded dog bone – 11’ x 39.5’. There is an 11’ x 7.5’ staging yard behind the eastern backdrop. Total dimensions are 11’ x 47’ (517 square feet).
- Track: Mostly GarGraves with some Curtis sectional curves, Curtis Hi-Rail turnouts, and Ross Custom Switch turnouts.
- Yards: Weirton Junction, Weirton Steel, Coal Mine Spur, Staging.
- Command System: TMCC. Turnouts have Z-Stuff DZ-2500A & C switch machines and are both TMCC and pushbutton controlled.
- Wiring & Blocking: 8 power districts will be supplied from 1 centrally located power distribution panel. Home run wiring will be used.
- Power: A number (TBD) of Lionel 180 watt PowerHouses will supply power to districts 1-8. Two (2) K-Line PowerChief 120 transformers will power switch machines, lights, and some AC accessories. All DC accessories, building lights, traffic signals and street lights get their power from various 3VDC, 5VDC, and 12VDC power supplies.
- Signals: Z-Stuff DZ-1060 PRR position signals (4) & MTH PRR signal bridges (2). The layout is only signaled for travel in the counter-clockwise direction.
Differences between Version 1.0 and Version 2.0
I feel that the increase in size (primarily length) will contribute to a more accurate representation of the area. Panhandle 1.0 was an ambitious design crippled by limited space. Panhandle 2.0 is similar in its major design aspects, but the additional space will allow those features to be separated by scenery. My intention is to avoid crowding layout elements and give real sense of distance between the features.
Construction Goals:
- Select a uniform height (48”) that facilitates working underneath comfortably.
- Avoid grades and take steps to make track as issue-free as possible.
- Make the fascia, table tops, and legs as attractive as possible; use high quality wood and stain exposed components. Plan for layout skirting.
- Minimize the use of cookie cutter subroadbed.
- Make aisles wide enough for comfort and provide space for seating at least a dozen people.
Operational Goals:
- Allow the simultaneous operation of at least 3 trains on the mainline and up to 3 switchers in yards or spurs.
- Use a signaling system that prevents collisions.
- Have curves large enough to permit the use of the largest PRR locomotives and scale passenger cars (requires O72).
- Permit the running of long trains (10-20 hoppers or 8 passenger cars).
- Allow operating sessions to take place.
Electrical Goals
The Panhandle was originally conceived (back in 1997) as a conventional layout. In 2005, I decided to install TMCC, but was influenced by the arrival of DCS. After trying a DCS/TMCC combination during construction, I decided TMCC was the direction to pursue. In 2007, the change was made to solely TMCC. Home run wiring and light bulbs (as block power indicators) were retained in the design. The electrical plan divides the layout into 8 blocks or power districts – 4 mainline and 4 yards - with the ability to individually control power to the yards. The mainline (districts 1-3) and yards (districts 5-8) are all command controlled. District 4 (River Route) can be operated in either command or conventional mode.
- Eliminate multiple power distribution panels.
- Simplify and improve labeling for all wires.
- Make use of 2-color zipcord where practical.
- Improve wiring reliability and crimping techniques.
Much more detail to follow, but those are my goals and thinking as I take the first steps down the road.
As always, your thoughts, suggestions, and questions are welcome.
George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."
—Katy Faust
—Katy Faust
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
It looks like Panhandle 1.0's main deck was at 42"? It did have the lower level staging area that looks like it complicated the under the layout work area. 48" base deck is getting pretty high. I understand it makes it easier to work underneath.
Is the deck of your main bridge at 48" with the "river" depressed below 48" or will you built up from 48"?
Is the deck of your main bridge at 48" with the "river" depressed below 48" or will you built up from 48"?
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?
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- Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:52 am
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
G3750 wrote:As always, your thoughts, suggestions, and questions are welcome.
Seems that you have it all sussed out and are ready to get building,
Conservatism: The intense fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is inferior is being treated as your equal.
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
chuck wrote:It looks like Panhandle 1.0's main deck was at 42"? It did have the lower level staging area that looks like it complicated the under the layout work area. 48" base deck is getting pretty high. I understand it makes it easier to work underneath.
Is the deck of your main bridge at 48" with the "river" depressed below 48" or will you built up from 48"?
Excellent question and observation, Chuck. Yes, Panhandle 1.0's original deck height varied between 42" at Steubenville and 46" at Weirton. The changes in elevation made life difficult and were actually not very true to the prototype. The eastern rebuild I did back in 2013 helped some. The lower level staging was one of those ideas that looked good on paper, but proved to be impractical in real life. I'm not going there again.
For Panhandle 2.0, the deck of the main bridge and the other bench work will remain at 48". The river will sit below it, roughly 32"-34" above the floor (final numbers are still TBD). Both abutments and the "shorty" pier extend downward approximately 6"-8" (not sure at the moment because they are packed away). The 2 "pocket piers" and the 2 main piers are all 12" tall and with bridge shoes and pedestals will extend downward accordingly to meet the river's surface.
As for working under the layout, I plan to buy one of those rolling stools from Home Depot. And I am installing lighting under the layout. I would love to see some suggestions for that.
Thanks,
George
Last edited by G3750 on Mon May 08, 2017 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."
—Katy Faust
—Katy Faust
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:G3750 wrote:As always, your thoughts, suggestions, and questions are welcome.
Seems that you have it all sussed out and are ready to get building,
Thanks Rufus! But let me say this about that.
First, there's a hell of a lot of unpacking to do. God, does moving suck.
Second, the workshop will get priority. It needs to be set up and functional.
Third, I have some lessons learned from Panhandle 1.0 seared into my *** and some clearer thinking on givens and druthers. And as a Prussian general once said "No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy."
George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."
—Katy Faust
—Katy Faust
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
Train room looks good George. Best of luck and I look forward to your progress. I like the picture of you and your wife on the front steps of the new place on OGR. Looks like a nice home.
Andy
Andy
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
Steamfan77 wrote:Train room looks good George. Best of luck and I look forward to your progress. I like the picture of you and your wife on the front steps of the new place on OGR. Looks like a nice home.
Andy
Thank you. We're very happy with the retirement home. This has been in the works for about a year. It always seemed to be off in the distance, even over the horizon. And then two weeks ago, everything just accelerated to warp speed. Suddenly we had a mad scramble to get everything done.
George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."
—Katy Faust
—Katy Faust
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- Posts: 41330
- Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:52 am
- Location: Departed from this forum
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
G3750 wrote:Rufus T. Firefly wrote:G3750 wrote:As always, your thoughts, suggestions, and questions are welcome.
Seems that you have it all sussed out and are ready to get building,
Thanks Rufus! But let me say this about that.
First, there's a hell of a lot of unpacking to do. God, does moving suck.
Yes and no - you do get the opportunity to jettison a lot of accumulated rubbish
Second, the workshop will get priority. It needs to be set up and functional.
And, do not short yourself on working space and also deliberate carefully on placement of benches, vises, power tools, lighting, and the electric supply for all.
Third, I have some lessons learned from Panhandle 1.0 seared into my *** and some clearer thinking on givens and druthers. And as a Prussian general once said "No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy."
But of course! Baron von Raschke!
Conservatism: The intense fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is inferior is being treated as your equal.
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:Second, the workshop will get priority. It needs to be set up and functional.
And, do not short yourself on working space and also deliberate carefully on placement of benches, vises, power tools, lighting, and the electric supply for all.
Yes, the workshop has gotten some very serious thought. There is more than enough electrical power in the room and several separate circuits to run all the power tools. My lighting options were limited by the builder, so that will get an upgrade shortly.
Third, I have some lessons learned from Panhandle 1.0 seared into my *** and some clearer thinking on givens and druthers. And as a Prussian general once said "No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy."
But of course! Baron von Raschke!
I think I knew him when he wrestled professionally.
But I was actually quoting Helmuth von Moltke the Elder.
George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."
—Katy Faust
—Katy Faust
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
Okay, the stage is set...we'll be looking for some Christopher-esque progress here.
Healey
Healey
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
healey36 wrote:Okay, the stage is set...we'll be looking for some Christopher-esque progress here.
Healey
I don't think I can compete with Christopher. He's a miracle worker. Plus I have some built in delays for things to be ordered and arrive.
George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."
—Katy Faust
—Katy Faust
Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle 2.0?
Just being facetious...looking forward to seeing 2.0 take form over the cycle. I haven't been to the basement in nearly six months...looking for some inspiration.
Healey
Healey
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