What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

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G3750
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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:34 pm

rogruth wrote:I have looked at the upper Ohio Valley on Google Earth.I knew what had happened to my home town and found that it is the whole area.

I wonder why anybody stays in the area.Most industry is gone.Mines are closed.What's left?Tourism?There is a little to see and do but not
enough to support the population that was once there.


Well, I don't think a lot of young people are staying. Many people who live in Weirton are working in Pittsburgh and environs. Weirton Steel, er Arcelor Mittal only employs 600-1000 people these days (I think). I don't know. Maybe the natural gas industry is having a positive effect. I know the Arcelor Mittal plant around here (Steelton, PA) is producing pipe. They've seen a mini-boom.

I keep saying my prayers for my little town.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:32 pm

Updated 4/14/2013:

My thinking has clarified a bit on downtown Weirton and Main Street. I will recap.

Here's the area in question - that big "hole" in the middle. Currently, it is open grid bench work with risers, subroadbed and track.
MainlineRestored002W.jpg
MainlineRestored002W.jpg (63.12 KiB) Viewed 4027 times


As you recall, the Blooming Mill and the Open Hearth already exist. Construction of the overpass (Crawford's Crossing) is underway. Photo 2 shows the relative placement of the structures. The highway overpass is not yet erected.

2011-01-05 006W.jpg
2011-01-05 006W.jpg (92.9 KiB) Viewed 4034 times


As you can see in the photo, an irregularly shaped plywood table top supports the Weirton Steel mill area.

In Photo 3 (the RR-Track plan of the area), the steel mills are just to the right (out of the picture).

Crawfords_Crossing01.JPG
Crawfords_Crossing01.JPG (171.04 KiB) Viewed 4033 times


Some reworked preliminary thoughts:

  • Just like the Standard Slag module (described awhile back in this thread with photos), we are going to make a sandwich. The bottom layer of the sandwich will be a 1/8" masonite board that will extend south from the north edge of the Main Street to the edge of the subroadbed supporting the tracks to the south (unseen past the southern edge of the photo). The masonite board will overlap the subroadbed, sitting on top of it. It will be carefully cut to mate up with the boundaries of the track roadbed. Eventually, ground cover will hide this seam.
  • The area south of the concrete wall will be almost 2" lower than Main Street. A 1:48 figure entering the front of the Quality Control Lab would exit the rear of the building at a lower level. The concrete wall lining the south side of Main Street will have a total height of 4" (from the floor of the sandwich).
  • Our sandwich filling will be RIBS! Unfortunately, they will be made of wood (1.75"x.75" pine) and will run North to South from the top edge of the module to the just north of the Concrete Wall. They will elevate Main Street. I will space them at regular intervals to add rigidity to the module.
  • The top layer of our sandwich will be Main Street (masonite) and a separate section of masonite supporting buildings running along the north edge of Main Street. That section will run all the way north to a vertical scenery divider that separates downtown Weirton (south side) from Weirton Junction (north side).
  • As you may have noticed, the bottom layer of masonite doesn't completely cover the entire module floor. That's because we will need to reach the wiring (Lesson Learned from Standard Slag - you can't get your hand into a 2" high cavity to do wiring). But a little of the bottom layer will extend north from the divider to give the Weirton Junction area a foundation. That area will be populated with a small hill, a lot of trees (to blend in with the divider) and the WC (Weirton Junction) interlocking tower.

Hopefully that clarifies the diabolical plan.

Too bad about the ribs, isn't it?

I would love to hear from you about this idea.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby rogruth » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:47 pm

I have made sure on my layout that I am able to reaCH ALL AREAS IN SOME WAY,SOME FROM ABOVE,[please excuse the caps,to lazy to re-do]some from below.
All tracks and wiring is reachable with out too much effort.I have one section on plywood but all wiring is reachable from below.
roger

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby rogruth » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:49 pm

G3750 wrote:
rogruth wrote:I have looked at the upper Ohio Valley on Google Earth.I knew what had happened to my home town and found that it is the whole area.

I wonder why anybody stays in the area.Most industry is gone.Mines are closed.What's left?Tourism?There is a little to see and do but not
enough to support the population that was once there.


Well, I don't think a lot of young people are staying. Many people who live in Weirton are working in Pittsburgh and environs. Weirton Steel, er Arcelor Mittal only employs 600-1000 people these days (I think). I don't know. Maybe the natural gas industry is having a positive effect. I know the Arcelor Mittal plant around here (Steelton, PA) is producing pipe. They've seen a mini-boom.

I keep saying my prayers for my little town.

George


I have a cousin at Steubenville that says hardly anything is left at Weirton.Same for Steubenville and Mingo.
roger

I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:43 pm

rogruth wrote:I have made sure on my layout that I am able to reaCH ALL AREAS IN SOME WAY,SOME FROM ABOVE,[please excuse the caps,to lazy to re-do]some from below.
All tracks and wiring is reachable with out too much effort.I have one section on plywood but all wiring is reachable from below.


Yeah, I hear you. I got a bit overzealous on the Standard Slag module and ended up moving wiring until I was able to reach it. On this part of the layout I absolutely WILL be able to reach all the building wiring from below (the first time).

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:45 pm

rogruth wrote:
I have a cousin at Steubenville that says hardly anything is left at Weirton.Same for Steubenville and Mingo.


Well, I get to see for myself at the end of the month. I will be in Weirton to visit my parents and conduct some museum business (meet with Weirton-Steubenville model railroaders about the museum's layout).

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Thu May 16, 2013 3:32 pm

Update 5/16/2013:

I'm pretty excited because tomorrow I am attending the Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society annual meeting. This year it is in Lancaster, PA. The meeting will be fun, but two presentations really have my attention. The first is on the PRR Middle Division and will be given by my friend Neal Schorr. Neal is an amazing modeler who just happens to model in 3 rail.

The second talk is on the PRR Panhandle Division and is being given by Bill Neal. Bill has had his HO version of the Panhandle featured in a number of national publications. I expect to learn a lot.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Mon May 20, 2013 10:25 am

Updated 5/20/2013:

Wow!

I mean just wow! On Friday, I attended the Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society's annual meeting in Lancaster, PA. I got to watch Bill Neal's presentation on modeling the PRR Panhandle (c. 1939). What an impressive layout. There's a reason this HO layout has been featured in national publications - it's awesome! All throughout the presentation I found myself recognizing spots on the Panhandle. Unbelievable historical accuracy, realism, and attention to detail.

I don't think I have enough talent to carry the guy's NMRA track gauge, but I was inspired nonetheless.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby bluelinec4 » Mon May 20, 2013 10:58 am

George
It always amazes me how much knowledge some guys have when it comes to the historical aspect of railroads. I visited an HO layout in Columbia NJ that was modeled on the Erie RR from Pavonia to Buffalo. If you questioned him about a part of his pike he had pictures stashed under the layout to show that every part of it was historically recreated.

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Mon May 20, 2013 12:00 pm

bluelinec4 wrote:George
It always amazes me how much knowledge some guys have when it comes to the historical aspect of railroads. I visited an HO layout in Columbia NJ that was modeled on the Erie RR from Pavonia to Buffalo. If you questioned him about a part of his pike he had pictures stashed under the layout to show that every part of it was historically recreated.


You're right, Ben. I was talking to Bill about the road trip my father and I made back in 2005 (posted on OGR as "I saw the ghost of the Panhandle"). He had been over the same ground in a site visit and told me about a ladder set of 3 switches still intact near Florence, PA. The track isn't there, but the switches are virtually untouched. It's a pretty amazing stretch of railroad. Too bad I missed it while it was operating.

I think I'm going to try a bike trip along the length of the Panhandle rails-to-trails (29 miles) sometime this summer if my schedule allows.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:27 pm

Updated 6/15/2013:

Took a few steps on the road to building the Weirton module:
  • Refined my thinking on the heights of the ribs stiffening the module. Ribs will go from (left to right) 0.75" to 2.5" (under Quality Control Lab) in height in supporting Main Street.
  • The north side of County Road may receive the Weirton City Building and the St. Paul School (still TBD). The southside is going to get some as yet undetermined businesses. The buildings will be fairly shallow (3" deep?) at this point.
  • Explored some options for what will occupy the North Weirton area. That area will slope downward from County Road to Main Street. Initial thinking is that an alley may run between the backs of the businesses on County Road and the backs of the businesses on Main Street.
  • The north side of Main Street will have some known buildings, while the south side will be the concrete wall (the one you see in the opening (kid on a bike) scene of the film "Super 8").
  • Bought a 4' x 8' piece of 3/16" masonite for the floor of the module.
  • Started laying out butcher paper to create floor template that will be used to cut the aforementioned masonite sheet.
  • Bought 2 1"x4"x8' pine boards for use as ribs. I've got a 3rd and a 1"x1.75"x8' board. Also have plenty of smaller size masonite pieces that can be used for module tops.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:31 pm

Updated 6/21/2013:

I've made the plans and dreamed up the "theory" of how the Weirton module is going to be built. Last night I took the first practical step towards making it happen. I laid out the butcher paper on the layout over the "hole" that will soon be Weirton. Then I cut around the edges. Next it will go on to a 4' x 8' piece of masonite for tracing and cutting. Here's the photo:

001_PaperTemplate.JPG


George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:47 am

Updated 6/25/2013:

I'm tempted to parody the Home Depot tag line and call this thread "More thinking, less doing". :lol:

But I am trying to adhere to the old adage "measure twice, cut once". Anyway, I have struggled a bit with the 3-D visualization of this module. One of pecularities of my thinking is that I come up with a grand scheme that then requires a lot of confirmation / detailed planning to make sure it works. The "vision thing" I do pretty easily. The working out of details takes awhile.

So far, I have marked the (big) module bottom masonite board for cutting using the paper template as a guide. I have also worked out the lengths and heights of all 6 ribs that will be spaced at 1' intervals along the 8' length of the module. I've also decided that risers and cleats (ala Linn Westcott) will be used to properly position and brace the module on the benchwork tables.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:00 pm

Updated 6/30/2013:

Spent much of the weekend testing out ideas.

I tried something different. I grabbed some previously cut pieces of masonite roadbed and experimented with placing them on the Weirton module. The experiment worked. The new placement buys a little more room for North Weirton at the expense of the junky area of Weirton Steel. That's a good trade-off, in my opinion. I am currently re-drawing the street plan.

I'm getting impatient to actually start cutting and assembling. Should happen soon.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust

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Re: What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

Postby G3750 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:11 pm

Updated 7/8/2013:

While I wrestle with planning the 3-D madness that is the City of Weirton module, I re-started the final steel-making building for the layout - the Strip Steel. This building will occupy a back corner of the layout and is by far the biggest structure. It has no sides, a roof, and measures 43.5" across the front. It will consist of 7 slightly recessed walls equally spaced between pilasters. The building will be approximately 36 scale feet high (9"). It will sport a roof-top sign saying "Weirton Steel Co.".

At least a year ago, I built the "shoulder" (the framework that will hold up the walls) for this structure. Over the past two days, I have been attaching square wooden rods to shoulder with clamps to determine the proper height.

Later, I will try to post some photos of the building as it looked in the period I am modeling as well as a few modern ones (it still stands).

More soon.

George
What is a 'Conservative'? "Someone who wants society and policy to recognize objective reality- economic, biological, and historical."

—Katy Faust


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