What's New on the PRR Panhandle Division?

[G3750]

George,

Have you posted your critique of DCS on OGR?

I really can't comment because I have never seen
DCS in use and seldom use the TMCC I have.

I wonder how many will now post their opposite
view from yours.?Yours seemed to be from personal
experience and IMHO not stated in an inflammatory manner.

Roger, I have posted this a number of times on the DCS forum at OGR over the past 6 years. It has always been met with either angry denial by certain individuals or with "things are much better now". Both are untrue responses to the best of my knowledge. When the facts or observed system behavior push the primary foamer up against the wall, he responds by blaming the user. In other words, "you did something wrong and DCS' poor performance is your fault". I've no wish to expose myself to any more such abuse. I sometimes privately contact those publicly debating going to DCS and share my observations.

George

[G3750]

I have two Legacy diesels that work fine with TMCC 1. I just can't justify the price tag of a Legacy controller and the added features it unleashes. The KISS principle at work.

I am a huge believer in the KISS principle. Huge.

George

[Roy]

I am a huge believer in the KISS principle. Huge.

If that were true, I expect you'd use cables to work manual switches.

[gtfan]

I am a huge believer in the KISS principle. Huge.

If that were true, I expect you'd use cables to work manual switches.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/390729089193?lpid=82

[J. S. Bach]

I am a huge believer in the KISS principle. Huge.

If that were true, I expect you'd use cables to work manual switches.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/390729089193?lpid=82

There are 13,535 results for Choke Cable; I actually like the idea.

[Roy]

There are 13,535 results for Choke Cable; I actually like the idea.

The choke cable seems expensive. I think bicycle brake or shift cable is cheaper. Anyway, I know guys have used this method to operate turnouts. It's about as simple as it gets.

[jlong]

George,

Have you posted your critique of DCS on OGR?

I really can't comment because I have never seen
DCS in use and seldom use the TMCC I have.

I wonder how many will now post their opposite
view from yours.?Yours seemed to be from personal
experience and IMHO not stated in an inflammatory manner.

Roger, I have posted this a number of times on the DCS forum at OGR over the past 6 years. It has always been met with either angry denial by certain individuals or with "things are much better now". Both are untrue responses to the best of my knowledge. When the facts or observed system behavior push the primary foamer up against the wall, he responds by blaming the user. In other words, "you did something wrong and DCS' poor performance is your fault". I've no wish to expose myself to any more such abuse. I sometimes privately contact those publicly debating going to DCS and share my observations.

George

No Kool Aid for you George.

[Neil]

My experience, while not as extensive as George's, was identical. DCS is quirky. What works one minute
may not work the next day. The reason it hasn't drive MTH out of business is that most people have simple
layouts where DCS is more predictable. The more complex the layout the more impossible it is to
predict whether it will work from the getgo, or require a few months of debugging. I know of two well known modular groups that have never implemented DCS simply because they cannot be sure the geometry of that
particular show's layout will work. Not what you want for a train show.

As for apologist fanboys like Broskowitz and Hikel, I'm sure they can make DCS work on most layouts (except Will
Allen's as I recall). Hikel seems an adult and reasonable guy, despite his obvious bias and refusal to acknowledge that bias towards MTH and DCS. Broskowitz, on the other hand, is a volcanically rude guy with a level of arrogance and self-importance that pins the adult behavior meter in the red zone. In other words, the loosest of loose cannons. He also has a financial and ego conflict of interest when anyone calls MTH out on this stuff, given his "book." He's about as poor a public representative as a company could have, short of Attila the Hun.

[jlong]

My experience, while not as extensive as George's, was identical. DCS is quirky. What works one minute
may not work the next day. The reason it hasn't drive MTH out of business is that most people have simple
layouts where DCS is more predictable. The more complex the layout the more impossible it is to
predict whether it will work from the getgo, or require a few months of debugging. I know of two well known modular groups that have never implemented DCS simply because they cannot be sure the geometry of that
particular show's layout will work. Not what you want for a train show.

As for apologist fanboys like Broskowitz and Hikel, I'm sure they can make DCS work on most layouts (except Will
Allen's as I recall). Hikel seems an adult and reasonable guy, despite his obvious bias and refusal to acknowledge that bias towards MTH and DCS. Broskowitz, on the other hand, is a volcanically rude guy with a level of arrogance and self-importance that pins the adult behavior meter in the red zone. In other words, the loosest of loose cannons. He also has a financial and ego conflict of interest when anyone calls MTH out on this stuff, given his "book." He's about as poor a public representative as a company could have, short of Attila the Hun.

Now you've done it. Dickle just became a sponsor. No Kool Aid for you either, brother.

[Neil]

Ah well. I can assure you that if I were in the market for a custom designed layout builder, the Hikels,
however smart and capable, would be the last people I'd consider, given their passion for MTH, DCS, PS1, PS2 and PS3 .

Although I hear PS3 is a big improvement on the crappy battery-infested PS1 and PS2.
PS1 and PS2 are the equivalent of toy train head lice as far as I'm concerned. Not fatal, but
a condition that is very annoying.

[rogruth]

WOW!I think that is the strongest anti MTH statement I have seen.

[Neil]

Well Roger, I'm sure it's at least as much an anti-MTH fanboy statement as an anti-MTH statement. I don't
like MTH's locos due to the control systems they've used, but that's not personal. I just don't
want additional hassle in what is a hobby.

Some years back, in the AOL days, I engaged in vigorous and not always decorous debate with
various MTH fans that became pretty acrimonious. Mike Wolf allegedly became so pissed off at
me that he made a dart board out of a photo of me for his office. I presume he didn't like my
criticism of his business practices and products. Some of MTH's most ardent fans were real pieces of work in terms of personalizing the conflict. So I do have a long history of distaste for the company's products, business practices and the occasional slimeball MTH fan. But if I had to be locked in a room with someone or something,
I'd prefer MTH trains to Mike Wolf to MTH's most fanatic Moonie fans . The trains aren't arrogant,
immature assholes. They cannot help that someone designed them to have a battery in the loco.

I'm sure the fact that Lionel still dominates the hobby 20 years later drives both Mike Wolf and his fans crazy . That explains their bizarre public behavior over the years.

[rogruth]

Neil,

I understand.I guess I sort of lump together MTH and its supporters as one.

[G3750]

I am a huge believer in the KISS principle. Huge.

If that were true, I expect you'd use cables to work manual switches.

Well Roy, it is true that I believe in the KISS principle. It's just that I believe in proven technology. I'm not a Luddite; I've spent 34 years (my adult working life) in computers and technology. I've had a major role in putting E-ZPass (RFID technology) on both the Pennsylvania and Ohio turnpikes, fielded an Internet vending machine, and written a fair amount of software in a number of computer languages. But the key point in all of this is - the technology has to work reliably and predictably. There's really nothing worse in a system than random failure.

To be fair, I like the idea of cables (at least for these switches) and I have considered them. There's a company called BluePoint, I think, that makes cable activated throws. At times, this has more appeal than I would expect.

George

[G3750]

Neil,

I understand.I guess I sort of lump together MTH and its supporters as one.

Roger, I really wanted DCS to be successful. And when I purchased it, I believed it was vastly superior to TMCC (based on the features and the hype). What I learned through bitter experience was very disappointing. And what made it worse was the fan-boy behavior. I understand being a champion for a product or a concept; what I and others experienced went well beyond the boundaries of fairness and good taste.

Since that time, I've come to learn of MTH's shady business practices and that has influenced me not to purchase any of the products at all.

George