Erie-Built

[J. S. Bach]

...snip... the thing turned out well as-is, and if we ever find a good bronze foundry we can have more sides cast and convert this back to a PA.

I hope that you do not as I like it just as it is. Especially the B-17 windows.

[bob turner]

After four days, Rich and I are "waking up" the forum.

Maroon just sent me a drop-dead gorgeous MG Erie-built B unit. It came out of a Trainz auction a year ago, and is beautifully painted and decalled NYC. It will be tough to repaint it, but it is going to become a Milwaukee B unit. Next year.

I do have photos, which, since Jim and I have a mutual affinity for these things, I will send to him. Either of us can post, but since we are down to you and me, going through the Shutterfly experience, even though trivially easy, will have to wait.

But since a picture is worth a thousand words, and since I have lots of words, here is what I discovered:

Assuming the Atlas model is reasonably accurate, the MG model has a couple flaws. One is the roof arch - it is even flatter than the Alco PA, and may be as flat as those Baldwin scale models castings of EMD units. It won't be all that noticeable, since we are only dealing with an eighth of an inch. It would be interesting to see it against the Overland models. The other flaw is - the Erie-builts had skinnier grilles than did the PAs - and Max sort of missed the skinniness.

All very intriguing, for the three of us who are studying Fairbanks Morse arcania.

[bob turner]

An update:

The B had several flaws in the truck/mechanism area. Two CLW axle gears were split, as Maroon suggested. The scary thing here is that I had always thought the CLW components were bulletproof, as opposed to, say, the Weaver gears, which all split.

The problem is that plastic shrinks with age, and the only cure is to do what Raoul Martin did, and age the plastic before hobbing the gears. Hopefully, Lou Houlemarde will have replacement gears available for the foreseeable future.

Replacing a CLW axle gear is a trivial 15 minute exercise. The press fit on the un-insulated side is so well done that you can do the un-pressing and re-pressing on a big drill press without introducing wobble.

Those gorgeous welded-frame trucks had also suffered, but with a little soldering and an extra brake beam they are back to the original appearance.

But of most interest - the MG B unit matches, in roof contour and in overall apprearance, the MTH PA. And since the MTH PA is among the most accurate (Lionel and Key being the others) I would say that its obvious place in life will be behind a PA.

I did not check it against the Overland PA. I shall do that today.

Speaking of checking things, yesterday I checked my USH 0-8-0. Somebody tell Ed Kelly these things were produced without backheads - motor clearance, I suppose.

[R.K. Maroon]

Here are some Erie-Built photos from Bob T.

First, his cast FM A with a Max Gray FM B:





He and I were both hoping that these would match-up better, but as you can see the roof of the cast A is taller and more curved than the MG B.

Interestingly, a CLW cast PB matches up pretty well to the cast FM A:



So what to do with the Max Gray B-unit? As it turns out, it lines up pretty well with an Overland PA:



I can hear the purists out there screaming and feinting (or ranting and raving). Not even Penn Central would mate up a Pennsy Alco with NYC FM.....oh wait....sure they would.

[De Bruin]

No, PRR and NYC had already cooked the long distance engine fleet down to E8's and E7's. NH to Fl-9's and GP's.
Any passenger Alco's left in PC days were limited to RS's in commuter pools. Match the paint though and NYC did indeed mix Erie builds with PA's in the late fifties and very early sixties.
Given the Erie-Builts shared many design/styling aspects with the Alco-GE PA's it's no surprise they matched roof wise as well as electrically.
Nice engines Bob

[bob turner]

I think the Erie B will wind up in DRGW Bumblebee. Ultimately I will probably relinquish the Overland stuff - doesn't match my hobby, and I don't care for the PRR Numberboards.

But Pete is correct - "Erie-builts & H20-44s" by Sweetland shows mixed Alcos and F-Ms on pp20 (ATSF), 34 (NYC), and 46 (UP).

Other photos show the Erie-builts paired with various EMD locomotives - my proposed paint will have no prototype, but I like the Grande Gold (same as SP Daylight orange).

I am sure the sand-cast and Atlas Erie-builts are way more accurate than MG, both as to roof curvature and as to the height of the horizontal screening behind the windshield area. Note that the MG screening is almost the same height as the PA.

[R.K. Maroon]

Pete, you are confusing the issue with the facts. I didn't say they did -- I was simply pointing out they may very well would have if they could have. That is, they did not seem terribly constrained by the tender feelings of the PRR and NYC purists. Black paint and worms, anybody?

Jim

[E7]

Pete, you are confusing the issue with the facts. I didn't say they did -- I was simply pointing out they may very well would have if they could have. That is, they did not seem terribly constrained by the tender feelings of the PRR and NYC purists. Black paint and worms, anybody?

Jim

I think there was a certain point where just about anything available was used. Apart from that, why let a little thing like reality spoil our fun. As far as "shapes" and "contours", the Withers Publishing glossy paperbacks are a great reference source:

https://www.arizonahobbies.com/Withers- ... 0-0-1.html

The black paint and worms still give me the heebie jeebies, LOL! As proven in the past, Sarge has a GREAT eye for and memory of this stuff!

[bob turner]

You are correct - he has a nice selection of books.

I am mostly an SP nut, but I regard the Diesel paint this way: Favorite - GN Green and Orange on almost anything.

Next favorite (believe it or not) B&O or Central of Georgia E and F units; maybe B&O on the FA/FB

After that, Union Pacific

Then Daylight or PRR five stripe.

The Milwaukee has me intrigued, but so far only on Erie-Builts and Bi-Polars. I do have a kit for the Skytop (thanks, Maroon) but it scares me a little bit.

[E7]

Bob, I would toss in Little Joe's and some of those BIG boxy Electrics!

[De Bruin]

My understanding these were the best passenger motors on the CMStP&P
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5587860
...bar none, according to the crews who ran them, the "Little Joes" were stout power too but these gigantic Westinghouse motors ruled for as long as they ran and their crews lamented them being retired in favor of rebuilding the slower and far more troublesome Bi-Polars.
Ditto the GE box motor sets, aka "Pelicans" especially in passenger service.

[bob turner]

Just a short update - one of my projects is a Skytop lounge. Jim kindly sent me a Walthers kit, which remains pristine at this moment, but I am carrying around the flimsoid back end hoping that I can get a buddy to scan it for a 3D print job. It is made of celluloid, slightly lighter in weight than that plastic box that spinach comes in at your local grocery.

But - I have a wood form, bolted to an aluminum extrusion and ready for some soldering - I have not yet soldered anything, but have two of the three horizontal pieces screwed to the wood block in preparation. If I had the patience of, say, Lou Bartig, I could make it perfect. But you know me - all I really need is an approximation. I am not sure that any O Scale attempt has ever been dead-on accurate, but the Walthers version appears closest of all the model photos I have seen.

Don't hold your breath for a photo - this thing is truly ugly at the moment - and is taking second place behind an SP Atlantic and a Stearman wing spar.

[HONDO74]

I am mostly an SP nut, but I regard the Diesel paint this way: Favorite - GN Green and Orange on almost anything.

From the movie BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK.....
Southern Pacific " Black widow " F7 #6386 A + B Unit in 1955 Spencer Tracy film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE_-ixh0FVA

[J. S. Bach]

...snip... But you know me - all I really need is an approximation. ...snip...

Your "approximations" results are far better than what most achieve.

[bob turner]

Just an "Erie-Built" update. I grabbed Sweetland's "Erie Built" book for a moment this AM while the Greek was installing software in the TV, and noted the interesting configuration on a single UP Erie - see page 42.

We may have posted Maroon's FM - I will look - Yeah, here it is:



but suffice to say I was puzzled by the four shiny bars extending over the upper vents from the cab windows back, and also sort of turned off by that "Neanderthal ridge" that the early cast nose had over the windshield and side windows.

Surprise! What is surely the first UP Erie-Built has those features!

I am now convinced that the early units were hand-built one at a time - roof contours above the B-17 windshield seem to vary from unit to unit. Then F-M changed the entire nose when it went to the larger windshield - even the length of the snout changed.