NYC Steam

[ScaleCraft]

And not too many folks are going to take a $5K 700E and 2-rail it.
There are a whole lot newer versions than the mid-50's 773.
This is a Vision line Lionel 5344 from the 2010 catalog:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/lionel-initial- ... 68.jpg?v=2

[ScaleCraft]

New from Lionel 7 years ago they were $1600.
Auction here of Neil Young's collection brought $1024.
https://www.julienslive.com/m/lot-detai ... /lot/98421

But wait! Trainz got into it!

https://www.ebay.com/p/1000822639

Don't say Trainz, but how many evilbait train sellers in Buford, Georgia? And $2500 plus shipping!

"Brand new: Lowest price"

And here one sold for $1440:

https://www.legacystation.com/lionel-11 ... mmac-44615

[E7]

It will be interesting to see if the Big "L" will expand into 2 rail with the departure of Mikey.

Anybody expanding into 2 rail would be welcome!

Agreed 100%!

[bob turner]

Isn't the Vision Line just re-electronicked K-Line? Those 1990s Hudsons, maybe the Williams die cast, and surely the MTH, are superior models at $300 max each, used.

K-Line did a superb job of details above the running boards - but a U-shaped boiler is, to me, offensive! GAAK!

[bob turner]

Promised some photos. Man, do I have photos of Hudsons! Check my SP Steam thread for my fantasy SP Lobaugh Hudson.
Here is my first O Scale steamer - $50 at that neat old hobby shop two doors west of Nicholas Smith on 11th Street. I converted it to Lobaugh drivers, and to 1 1/8" gauge, which was to be my standard before I discovered 17/64 scale.
Counterweights are too big, and I still haven't added piping, but what the heck? I have only had it for 60 years.
Tender is two die cast tenders married together with epoxy glue in 1965. Who knew that stuff would last this long?



Before I get carried away ( all are loaded in Shutterfly) let me revisit tenders - anybody remotely interested in Hudsons needs Staufer's Thoroughbreds book. It is an absolute delight. Mine is almost worn out.

J1e Hudsons all came with long six axle tenders like the one shown in Maroon's excellent photos. Lionel, Hudson Products, Williams, and MTH have reproduced that tender in die cast, and imports abound. Staufer, and I, think the J1e may be one of the world's best-proportioned steam locomotives. He has a complete chapter on 5344.

The J2 (and a couple of early J1s) came with shortie 4-axle tenders. Very rare on NYC, and not found on any J1d or e locomotives. Thanks, Al.

As we go on, I will assert things about the K-Line which make some folks mad - but I found photographic proof, which you shall see next week. I own an MTH, which, as far as I can tell, is as good a model as the 700E, but with inaccurate tender trucks.

[Chris Rock]

That engine is a looker for sure. I'd like to see some more of the Virginian stuff on the layout. Michael Ross's layout looks to be coming along great. I remember seeing photos from the earlier stages and could tell it was going to be a good one.

[bob turner]

Here is an MTH Hudson, converted to 2-rail. As near as I can tell, for conversion purposes this is as good as the 700E ever was. Mine got a new frame, gearbox, cylinders, etc., but it came from MTH pretty much ready to run on 2-rail track. MTH decided to shrink cylinders, rather than pilot wheels, and moved piston rods outboard (something I do once in a while, although not an eighth of an inch per side).

It has wonderful sound, and someday I shall get a factory reset, so I can use the whistle and bell. All you need to do is use white paint on the flywheel to synchronize the chuff with a new gearbox.

[bob turner]

Um - Scalecraft. Only because I want to make sure I am giving Chris the correct sequence. You get no more of my Hudsons after this unless I notice that you have noticed.

[R.K. Maroon]

The oversize headlight makes me think it might be all original. Is it? The tender trucks tend to fall apart, as I understand it. Zinc rot, maybe? Or just weak design? Or maybe I am wrong.

[bob turner]

Zinc rot. Heat them up, and they exude sulphur! I know this because I had molds made to do them in brass - the foundry guy complained.
New sand dome, Lobaugh drivers, some modification of tender rivets, otherwise stock (except the tender trucks).

[bob turner]

Here is the K-Line Hudson. This one was 2-railed, with motor moved into the firebox and boiler belly redone in round style, typical of real steamers, K-Line had simply unwrapped it below the running boards, making it U shaped.

I thought this was the best detailed die cast Hudson I had seen, and worthy of my efforts. I then parked it next to the 763, and it appeared small. I also did the 2-rail round belly treatment to their spectacular Lima Berkshire, and only after finishing did I realize that it, too, was a bit on the small side. We start with overly wide track, and reducing the size of our models makes that worse.

When I first mentioned this undersize problem on NK, the K-Line cult hit me hard. They did not at all care for aspersions being flung at their favorite models. I discovered, while assembling these photos for Shutterfly, that I had photographic evidence, which will be posted soon.

[rogruth]

Bob,
Is the loco actually under-sized or others over-sized or what? I assume you will explain.
Does the size difference show if one is not seen with the other?

[Chris Rock]

I'll be looking forward to the comparisons. But it seems like all one has to do is measure to know if something is too small or too big. It would be great to see the post on OGR, not as a means to agitate, but for information.

[bob turner]

It was multiple posts, over a decade ago. Not worth it to search. The gist of it was I was being unreasonable about wanting round boiler bellies on my steamers, and that the K-Line Hudsons and Berks were full size, and in reality the prototypes were not large locomotives. An Overland Mikado dwarfs the K-Line Lima Berk, in my opinion.

Speaking of opinions, it is my opinion that these two NYC Hudson tenders differ in size. One is K-Line, the other MTH. I no longer have a Lionel 700T, but suspect it is identical in size to the 18006, or 1-700E, tender. I have sort of given up acquisitions, since I am overwhelmed with models at the moment and can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel. My spouse wants me to sell, but I shall leave the selling to others. But if I were acquiring, a 1-700E would be arriving, along with the 18000 switcher. What bargains!

[bob turner]

Just found my "John Fisher" Huson photo - a 2-railed Lionel 773, with what Bob Hall called a "Saudi" tender. Tender of course scratchbuilt.