I like it...but....

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ScaleCraft
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I like it...but....

Postby ScaleCraft » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:53 am

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Brass- ... 4496957616

I like NP stuff. I like GM and All-Nation stuff.
This one....I've seen these before, something isn't right. Is it smokebox too short? Pilot deck WAY too long?
Lead truck looks too far forward. By quite a bit.
Saving and editing some of the photos...in the dim evilbait style, the driver tires look badly corroded, but lightening, just need to be cleaned. And the white paint they did the sides of the driver tires is all over, including flanges!
"engine sold as is untested what you see is what you get thank you"
Stack is crooked, class light missing, painted except they added brass domes, whistle, bell and headlight afterwards...so they're still brass. I can see fluted domes brass...not round tops.
Smokebox support rods supposed to be there?
Somebody found a kit and slapped it together.
225 sounds a bit high, especially if they didn't bother to test it.
compare: http://www.tcawestern.org/images/an42.jpg
Dave....collector, restorer, and operator of the finest doorstops

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De Bruin
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby De Bruin » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:03 am

Agree, smoke box is way too short. This was originally the Lobaugh version of the NH 4-4-0 that's been "NP-ized" right?
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ScaleCraft
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby ScaleCraft » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:15 am

Seller says All-Nation, and every drive train and chassis shot supports that assertion.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:16 am

Seller is Carey............
Alcohol does not solve any problem, but then neither does milk.

prrjim
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby prrjim » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:47 pm

I agree, mechanically, it appears to be mostly All Nation, or GM.

But the pilot sticks out too far as has been said and looks like a part from something else, and the lead truck is too far forward. I built an AN 4-4-0 years ago and it did not look like this this. the cylinders don't look right for an AN model either as I remember mine. Some sort of jerry rig or something was done to mount that lead truck where it is.

the cab and boiler look like AN but maybe the smoke box was shortened. the boiler was cast bronze and the smoke box was machined very smooth while the rest was rough casting. The cab was built of fabricated brass. I remember that the wrapper which was the 2 sides and the cab roof was formed and one piece. they soldered in the rear and front and it screwed to the back of the boiler casting.

the kit came with a decent sized nice lead casting that went into the cab to put weight on the drivers. the shaft from the motor went under this through an arch.

The domes look like the ones I remember but mine were cast zamak or lead and screwed to the boiler. I wonder if seller just paint those to look like brass.

The strange high coal pile is probably to hide the motor, but I don't remember that mine was that high. However my kit came new from AN in the early 70s. The tender frame on mine was cast aluminum I think and looked like the one in the photos. The tender was fabricated brass. As with the cab, the wrapper of the sides and end were formed and I had to solder in the deck and probably the coal area was open for the motor. I don't remember what the motor mounts looked like and how the tank attached to the frame.

The wheels in the photo do look like they are either very dirty or badly worn. Not sure were that is a rough surface or accumulated dirt in the photos.

In my opinion "not tested" in a posting like this means it didn't run when they tried to test it. You could split hairs and say they couldn't complete the test so able to state "untested". I just think it is misleading.

As for price, that is up to the buyer. For me it is over priced because of the rework of which you can evaluate the quality. And it just not look right as a model the way it is. If someone likes it or sees something they can resurrect and use, it may be worth it for the parts.

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ScaleCraft
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby ScaleCraft » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:57 pm

And as Martin pointed out, Carey is seller.
Opinion.....we have a fairly god idea he has the capability to actually test the engine.
Even with test leads.
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R.K. Maroon
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby R.K. Maroon » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:09 pm

Here is the All Nation 4-4-0 as featured in A/N Catalog #9:

Image
Fun stuff indeed

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ScaleCraft
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby ScaleCraft » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:11 pm

Yup...something seriously wrong. Pilot deck is WAY too long, like someone put a Pacific deck on it, re-drilled for lead truck mount.
Has the inside-cant cylinders. Missing deck details...cut lever, grab irons. Somebody bought a kit, threw it together, left bits off, scavenged parts from somewhere else.
Not even sure the lead truck would clear on a curve.
Deck ladders?
I am enamored of the crosshead guides bent down on both sides.
$47.50 for a kit, new......for what's there, not sure $225 is close, but hey, I'm a cheapskate.
Dave....collector, restorer, and operator of the finest doorstops

E7
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby E7 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:06 pm

ScaleCraft wrote: hey, I'm a cheapskate.


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ScaleCraft
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby ScaleCraft » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:07 pm

Crosshead guide support is an issue. Either wrong part, or needs to be shimmed up to make crosshead guides and valve rod level. The cutout to clear the bottom of the boiler is WAY off. Looks like 1/8" or so.
Opinion.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:03 pm

ScaleCraft wrote:$47.50 for a kit, new......


When was that - ~1960-63?
Alcohol does not solve any problem, but then neither does milk.

bob turner
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby bob turner » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:41 pm

This one might be Babbitt, with urethane cylinder block. If I needed one, the first thing I would replace is that block. Pilot decks and boiler supports are trivial changes.
Maybe Carey is finding estates and selling the excess?
We should relax a bit - nothing used runs all that well - you always need to go through the mechanism.

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ScaleCraft
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby ScaleCraft » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:41 pm

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
ScaleCraft wrote:$47.50 for a kit, new......


When was that - ~1960-63?

Catalog #9.
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ScaleCraft
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby ScaleCraft » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:22 am

Dave....collector, restorer, and operator of the finest doorstops

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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: I like it...but....

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:17 am

Meh.....
Alcohol does not solve any problem, but then neither does milk.


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