Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

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Carey Williams
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Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby Carey Williams » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:31 pm

Hello all keepers of the doorstops

Here we have a Berkshire .. with a Lobaugh motor and perhaps drive ?..but it does not have the drop out drivers . Boiler is a casting ( a very heavy one at that). Cast frame , nice detail ,this is a Nickle Plate type ?
Old school with whiskers and uninsulated wheels, manual reverse ... (all the good stuff).

So who made the lovely Berkshire?
Thank you
Cheers Carey


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bob turner
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby bob turner » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:54 pm

I believe you are looking at an Adams/CLW Kanawha. Not sure what the mechanism should look like - I can post a couple photos?

bob turner
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby bob turner » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:16 pm

Yes - that's it. Genuine, with the proper frame and other parts. Check for insulated drivers - they may be.

The tender that was supplied with the kit was identical to the All Nation Mountain tender, only brass cast. It is too short for the Kanawha. The kit could be converted to Pere Marquette, except the giant sand dome would then be in the wrong spot. They supplied small parts for either.

You need to lower the cab and re-do the air pipes, and then you will have a stunning model.

From memory, I think it is Allan Goldsbee, in Michigan, who is the expert on these. I think he bought the entire production run.

Carey Williams
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby Carey Williams » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:11 pm

Hello Bob

Thank you very much for identifying the engine as a CLW ...with an Adams boiler .... what time period was the engine offered ? Any catalogs or flyers with the engine pictured ?
Interesting that they used the GM Mountian tender .... one came with the engine ( which I assumed was wrong ) ... but it is the aluminum cast tender ..not brass ...

Allan Goldsbee bought the entire run ? He was a dealer ? builder ?

Cheers Carey

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R.K. Maroon
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby R.K. Maroon » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:29 am

I concur with Bob on the basics here: Adams and Son Foundry offered a casting set for the Lima-built C&O "Kanawha" Berkshire, and this model is made from those castings. I am no expert but it looks like it was built as the C&O version, though I would encourage close comparison in this regard. Photos can be found online. The castings for this are not listed in the 1947 A&S price list but are listed in the 1949 list. Interestingly, the castings are listed all together on a single page of the price list but no "kit price" is offered for all of them. The only non-cast parts offered are stampings for the valve gear and a turned-brass bell. Axles, gears, couplings, hardware, and motor are not offered. For what it is worth, I have no evidence that Adams and Son ever offered such items for any of their models -- they seem to have been mostly a foundry, true to the company name. While the engine castings appear only in the 1949 list, the tender is listed in 1947 as well. In both price lists, the five large castings are listed as aluminum while the smaller castings are brass. I had not heard that the A/N Mountain tender was the same as the Adams C&O tender (as it is listed), so that is good to know. One does not see the Kanawha casting set built-up often, and the reasons for this are fairly evident: You had to be aware of the availability of castings (and A&S did not advertise much at all), build and finish the model yourself, and gin-up a drive to complete the chassis. It's a nice find.

I have never seen any evidence of a CLW involvement with this, but maybe Bob has an ace up his sleeve here. CLW did advertise casting sets for two NYC and three Santa Fe steamers. One ad shows a casting set for the NYC Mikado. There are a lot of castings shown in the ad but no boiler. I own a chassis made from these castings -- it arrived under a ScaleCraft Mikado boiler and is a bit of a mismatch to say the least. From reading subsequent CLW ads it seems that the other casting sets never saw the light of day, but this is not for certain. Adams and Son made the castings for the original Varney Ten-Wheeler and maybe for some of the GMC or A/N off-shoots of that locomotive. Beyond that, I have no evidence of any other steam locomotive with a cast boiler and Adams and Son heritage, though I won't be surprised if there were others.

Jim
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Carey Williams
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby Carey Williams » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:17 pm

Hello Bob and Jim

Thank you for your help identifying the "Kanawha" Berkshire as Adams ... "the elusive" .

So Adams provides castings for a whole laundry list of folks in the industry ..and additionally marketed a few pieces directly to the public ... Adams attended a few of the NMRA conventions (late 40's) and at least one ad he thanks all those in the industry for the business ... can we assume Adams and perhaps his son were also avid model railroaders ?

Here are two photos with the engine and tender ( marked Adams ... aluminum... appears the same as the GMC Mountain .. which seems to have been introduced mid 1949 ...so timeline ties in with it's use with Berk).

Detailing of the Berk boiler seems a step up from that of the GMC line ....

The traction effort ( based on weight of engine ) should rival that of a Cat D10
Cheers Carey

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bob turner
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby bob turner » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:47 pm

Here is mine - nowhere near as complete as yours. Note the cab position. For the doubters, it is powered, and does run on 2-rail track.

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rrjjf
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby rrjjf » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:12 pm

Carey,

I have never ween many of these models completely put together. Yours looks complete. Very neat!

Joe
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Carey Williams
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby Carey Williams » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:16 pm

Hello all
Bob very nice engine ... where is the prototypical drive shaft running down to the drivers?
Joe thank you for your kind words ...
I feel very fortunate to have been able to acquire the engine ...
Back to working in the basement so I can post videos of it running
Cheers Carey

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De Bruin
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby De Bruin » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:39 pm

Carey, that Berk is the bomb, wish you would straighten out the bent in details around the headlight, number boards and headlight
and re-photo and post though so we can get the full effect the manufacturer intended.

I have to admit this has visually a "heft" to it that is to me unusual. Very cool.
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bob turner
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby bob turner » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:26 pm

Carey - I had to look! This is one of my very few locomotives with a USH gearbox, so the driveshaft is up inside the boiler. Gearbox is disguised by that giant equalizer bar. You may have motivated me to finish this brute - we'll see.

bob turner
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby bob turner » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:44 pm

Now in contact with Allan Goldsby. If he shares history, I will post.

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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby bob turner » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:40 pm

Allan never got back to me.

So now I have pulled my Kanawha off the shelf for piping and paint. I do have the Staufer book "C&O Power" but it has two different configurations of air tanks and lines. I will start with booster piping, and consult with my C&O buddies for more source material.

bob turner
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby bob turner » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:39 am

About halfway there. If anybody knows of a source for .032 HH brass wire, let me know. K&S seems less than interested at the moment. also, I usually use oversize wire for air lines, but this one might need some .040 instead of the .047 you see here.

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John Webster
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Re: Berkshire big and heavy built by ?

Postby John Webster » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:57 am

https://www.mcmaster.com/#8864k83/=1a7vai4

Not exactly what you asked for but probably will work.
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