Pullman passenger car handrails

[bob turner]

I use heavier wire for appearance, not robustness. Original Lobaugh hand grabs, while closer to the actual scaled-down handrail diameter, appear wispy to me. I use nothing below .032 except for bell rope. There is room for artistic license here.

I note that, on a fully scale E-7 Diesel, for instance, a heavy coat of paint will cover all rivet detail. My rivet bats are .010 thick, with giant rivet impressions, for effect. All-Nation did it that way.

[E7]

I demur here. However, finicky insistence on proper diameter scale grabs on a Walthers car seems overkill. On a Joe Fischer car, yes. On the relatively crude Walthers? Like Bob, I'd go for robustness first.

ALL OPINION: The quest to be "PROTOTYPICAL" in this hobby, sometimes gets all out of hand. When making something to scale creates an item that is a genuine pain in the arse to handle. it's time to rethink things.

My favorite pet peeve is PRR train phone antennae mangled beyond recognition. Increase the diameter/thickness of the stanchions and wire by about 1/2, and I'm sure they would hold up better and I'm betting they would hold up MUCH better. Impervious to damage no, but better, yes! Do it with brake wheel shafts and the middle step on reefers. I'm sure there are other good candidates. My 2c!

Rich

[Seaboard Air Line Fan]

Every wire grab I've put on a model doubles in size when paint is applied to them.

How many of you build for contests? I would have to increase my skills tenfold to enter a contest and I honestly don't have it in me anymore.

I'll go as small a diameter as I can if it will hold its shape.

[bob turner]

I do not build for contests, but I have won more than my share, with oversized rivets, handrails, and cooling pipes.

[bob turner]

This one won OSW and the NMRA National - first place steam, with oversize rivets, pipes, and handrails, and no brake shoes:

Southern Pacific Class 5011 008.jpg (804.77 KiB) Viewed 3992 times

[E7]

Every wire grab I've put on a model doubles in size when paint is applied to them.

I would try thinning your paint more.

How many of you build for contests? I would have to increase my skills tenfold to enter a contest and I honestly don't have it in me anymore.

Contests do NOT interest me whatsoever!

I'll go as small a diameter as I can if it will hold its shape.

The things I'm talking about are those that are EASILY bent. That said, make yours as thin as you like as it doesn't affect me one way or the other! Take notice of what Bob said.

Rich

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Every wire grab I've put on a model doubles in size when paint is applied to them.

What paint are you using?

How many of you build for contests? I would have to increase my skills tenfold to enter a contest and I honestly don't have it in me anymore.

I have walls of plaques and stacks more on the floor. I enter a car or 3 every year just for me.

I'll go as small a diameter as I can if it will hold its shape.

Try using the 0.020" phosphorbronze wire from Tichy - as much as I like the Detail Assoc. brass wire, it's gotten next to impossible to locate.

[Seaboard Air Line Fan]

Most of my paint is still Floquil. I don't think I've ever bought any paint specifically for handrails.

Most of my grabs have been made using .030 brass wire, need to place an order with Tichy!

.030 would make them about 1-1/2" diameter, more of a bar rail than a hand rail

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Most of my paint is still Floquil. I don't think I've ever bought any paint specifically for handrails.

Most of my grabs have been made using .030 brass wire, need to place an order with Tichy!

.030 would make them about 1-1/2" diameter, more of a bar rail than a hand rail

Might look at the rest of stuff Don sells - you might find a few other bits to fill out the S&H....like more wire!

[texas&pacific]

My original post generated some interesting feedback, so I thought I'd share what I did this weekend to move this model forward.
To start, here are the instruction sheet sketches and a reference from photo from William Kratville's 1968 Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949 It is an American Standard kit with resin sides and metal ends and details.
The dimensions for the handrails would have produced an "L" shaped handrail on either side of the door, that if anchored just inside the door frame would have gone past the end of the car casting (note longer side to "L" is listed as 3/4"). More on this later...

For comparison, and I realize there are dozens, if not hundreds of variations on both "standard" and "company" cars, here is a typical end from a Pullman car from Kratville. Note there are 6 (SIX, count 'em) handrails and grabs on this end (2 drop at bottom, 2 "L" on either side of door, one to left of brakewheel and one on upper right.

[texas&pacific]

I totally agree with Bob on handrail thickness. I make sturdy handrails for sturdy cars, since I handle all my rolling stock, and sometimes drop them so I need to build for durability. I chose K&S 0.032 music wire for grabs that don't require any soldering, which equates to 1.53 inches. A bit thick, not to scale, but sturdy. I will choose equivalent brass thickness for steps requiring some soldering. I have always been impressed by the massiveness of Pullman cars. I have several restored prototypes nearby I can visit, and three impressions immediately come to mind. 1) These cars are BIG. When you stand alongside them, and not on a passenger platform, but down by the ballast and rail, you are looking up at these rolling hotel/restaurants on rails. 2) The trucks are MASSIVE. But more on this later. 3) Lots of underside stuff to model, which is fascinating.
Not finding any commercially available bending jigs online for the sizes/shapes I was wanting to form, I made this template out of scrap aluminum plate. I made the pin removable, and flip the jig over to make the "mirror" handrail for the left side.


So I came close to 19/32" on the "L" shaped handrail, which seemed to fit nicely just inside the the door frame and edge of rivet strip on end.

And this looked pleasing enough at arms length. This is a running model, and not going to any contests. Note 3/4" as per instructions would have gone off the side. The other grabs were bent around different sized plier jaws.

So here is the completed side. With music wire, the drop handrails require some "thumb OOMPH" to get the correct angles. Any suggestions? I ended up with about half a dozen duds (inconsistent sizes) on the drop bend.

[Robert]

Looks like you did a very nice job!

Robert

[bob turner]

Yeah - looks professional. That end shot of the Pullman is an advertisement for Proto-48.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

With music wire, the drop handrails require some "thumb OOMPH" to get the correct angles. Any suggestions?

Small machinist's vise? Clamp both legs and bend?

What about that little loop for the chain to drop through the right hand L grab on the left? Not adding the chain or just going to force it through and be done with it?

[texas&pacific]

Thank you, Gents.
Hey Rufus, yes, you noticed that on the prototype pic that the "L" handrail actually "kinks out" to let the chain pass. Right now, chain will pass/fit OK. Plus this "L" handrail has a "squirrelly lookin' J curve" on where it attaches to the body on the lower end. I use highly technical descriptors on all my model bits.I may try more exotic handrail shapes with brass, as 0.032 music wire is pretty much the upper limit on what I can shape with the tool/skills I have. Hmmmm.... Also, plan to add nut/washer casting on end as you suggested. BTW, who's pic is that on your BIO shot? No clue.
Have to think a bit on how I am going to handle the chain and what appears to be flag or marker lamp mounts on the end edges. Did these just go on end "observation" cars?