Walthers attic' and the Hiawatha cars

[Carey Williams]

Hello Walthers aficionados.

Before Wm Walthers was marketing little boxes of frustration and strife he was heavily into signaling and auto train control as he set up on his attic RR empire in Milwaukee in the very non -scale center third rail Standard Gauge. Within the Model Maker magazine of March 1932 a whole article with photos was published . Due to the amazing response he received about the signalling he placed an ad to do signalling for others and published a booklet about signaling and operation. First ad I could find for Walthers selling rolling stock was 1935 ( also in Model Maker) within the ad the mention of kits and other lines of rolling stock is cited .
1935 Lionel introduces their Hiawatha 17/64ths scale ..pulling articulated cars ....which as we know were less then prototypical... so Walthers answers the call to fill the void with his Hiawatha kits. Last image from Wills book were he states Hiawatha cars were introduced in 36.

There are several photos of old period late 30's early 40s' layouts with a Lionel Hiawatha supporting outside 3rd rail pick ups pulling Walthers cars.
Perhaps not the use Joshua Lionel was hoping for ...but I think it is a neat cross over between the two " O Gauge Worlds" ..

Having a soft spot for all things steam clad in streamlining, any excuse to have a period Hiawatha in the early "O scale" collection is valid ..but those articulated Lionel cars cross the line ...so at the March meet I was able to find 2 Walthers Hiawatha cars to start the set off with.

Walthers offered the early Hiawatha cars and the later (postwar? set ..my goal was the early set .. with the Beaver tail Obs . ..Now to search for some of the other cars to fill it out .
Were these same kits of the early train offered for decades on end or just during the pre -war era ?

The cars being 1/4" scale will look a bit small behind the Lionel engine .... but that's the look ... Were any commercially built Hiawatha Atlantic's built contemporaneously with the Walthers' kits ?

Thank you Cheers Carey

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[bob turner]

You will not be significantly bothered by pulling 1/4" scale behind 17/64. You really have to look closely, unless you are dealing with the same prototype side by side. My 2-10-2s are all 1/4" scale, and I often double head them with the 17/64 4-10-2s.

[ScaleCraft]

You will not be significantly bothered by pulling 1/4" scale behind 17/64. You really have to look closely, unless you are dealing with the same prototype side by side. My 2-10-2s are all 1/4" scale, and I often double head them with the 17/64 4-0-2s.

Do those 4-0-2's use diesel traction motors in lead and trail trucks?

[bob turner]

Only on the trailing truck

[Carey Williams]

Hello all
found a photo from Model Railroader March 1942 taken at a Detroit layout with Lionel Hiawatha pulling a string of Walther's cars .... hard to tell if they are adding the 3rd rail or pulling it ... by 42 outside 3rd rail was on the slide

Cheers Carey

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[Erik C Lindgren]

Amazing talent in those days.

[stephen neill]

Way to go Carey! I believe, but I don't know for sure, that they also offered the early cars after the war. I checked the 1948, 1949, and 1950 catalogs and didn't see them. More later.
Steve

[ScaleCraft]

Only on the trailing truck

Got it. I will tell you, however, that if you have a fleet of these, you will certainly have more than you will ever need with fully round bottom boilers, no gearboxes, driveshafts or motors visible under boiler and between lead and trail trucks.
How long have you been working on this and never let on?

[bob turner]

I have three: two SP and one Baldwin. No gearboxes,drive shafts, or motors are visible, and boilers are fully round. All run like little watches. The first one caused a building expansion.

[E7]

The Wenonah observation is crude at best, but it definitely exudes a certain charm in it's simplicity. A simple model in a simpler time. It would be interesting to see current dollar conversions of the prices listed in tose old catalogues, and then bump them against what the average Joe made a week. Maybe the prices on high end brass ain't that bad in retrospect!

[Robert]

I thoroughly enjoy the photos of the early layouts, especially the one from the Detroit club in the terminals article. My old friend Henry Keroack would often refer to the early days in which he pursued the hobby during it's infancy.

Thanks

Robert

[bob turner]

I don't know how accurate they are, but inflation calculators are easy to find with Google. Give us a kit price, and a year, and we can easily get your numbers.

[bob turner]

For instance, in 1939 a Lionel 700E was $75. Today's money that is $1314.40.

Average salary in 1939 was $1850. Today's median household inclme (2015) is $55775. Average income is no longer a good thing to look at, because the top 1% is so high it skews the number upward.

Now all you need is a "ratio and proportion". I note that a 1-700 E was probably a bargain compared to 1939. I think you can get the "Vision Line" Hudson for $1300.

All based on not verified sources on the internet. Probably close to the truth.

[Carey Williams]

Hello all

At least one clever builder produced the Hiawatha Hudson for his empire . Any one know Dr B W Travis ?
Model Railroader 1944 center 3rd rail operation . Is a 700 E hiding under the sheet metal ?
You can see the Walthers' Hiawatha kit cars in the background of the 2nd photo .
Cheers Carey

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[Carey Williams]

Hello all
Found another Lionel Hiawatha pulling Walthers cars from January 1946 Model Railroading with an outside 3rd rail layout
Cheers Carey

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