EMD E8 Roof Question

[DaveJfr0]

Saw a picture of another E8 model on the web and saw a part I don't recognize...

http://www.americanmodels.com/_photos/e8.rooftop.jpg

Side view on another model: http://s135.photobucket.com/user/Jim_Becker68/media/Burlington%20Northern%20EMD%20E9Au%209908/Construction%20Photo%2004-19-16%2003_zps6tqgvc82.jpg.html

There is a box that surrounds the 2 left fans. Outside that box, but between the two fans, there is a small rectangular gadget between the box and the large long pipes. It is on both sides of the box. Any idea what that is? Was it on every E8 ever made?

[E7]

Winterization hatch, I do believe. Having not seen EVERY E8 no way I can comment. The hatch would snap over that rectangular frame shown in your first image.

Rich

[aterry11]

Dave, I believe that is the servo used to open and close the internal vanes on the winterization hatch when it is place. Hotwater would probably know since he worked for EMD and is rather knowledgeable about diesels, albeit gruff sometimes. I want to know too .

[up148]

Agree it is some iteration of a winterization hatch, although to my knowledge, about the only road to use these was the UP. Not sure of the items between the cooling lines and the hatches.

BH

[ScaleCraft]

NYC:
http://www.bcoolidge.com/PC%20Pix/E8-40 ... Edited.jpg

MoPac:
http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/ ... falvey.jpg

Q:
http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/fileSendAc ... 209947.jpg

EL:
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/8 ... 632027.jpg

PRR:
https://myp48.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/lt-key-e8.jpg

[DaveJfr0]

Thanks aterry. I'll reach out to Hot Water about the "servos". Never noticed them before, and they're not on all units that I can tell.

[DaveJfr0]

Here is my interaction with ole Hot Water.

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/emd- ... 4077577128

I guess American models is trying to model the lever apparatus, but I'm still not 100% convinced, but I'll accept it. I figure ole Hot Water would have known if it was something else.

[DaveJfr0]

Hot Water,

Since you appear to read here (and posted on OGR that you think I complained here about you and then you deleted your post), note that I never complained about you. Your answers are perfectly rational, great, and much appreciated.

I am not convinced the American Models Tooling with the big lump on the roof is the same lever that you mention. The fact is, I never knew there was a lever, and the few attempts at levers I've seen modeled are not a huge apparatus, but a thin lever on the shell of the hatch itself.

If you want the real (longer) story, I was trying to quietly help out Scott Mann and was reviewing the E8 tooling for Scott and saw an odd part on the roof I had never seen. It is somewhat big and lumpy like the American Models tooling. Then I tried to study various E8 roofs to understand this part. The lack of prototype photo evidence is making it extremely hard to understand exactly what the hatch lever looked like and if it was a large clunky object, or a thin lever attached to the hatch itself. And whether or not it was on both sides of the hatch. In any case, I wanted to privately email you (and only you, not all of the world) a picture of a part off a drawing from Scott and ask you what you thought. IE - If you thought that it was the hatch lever, or something else that may have been a railroad-specific item that the factory designers thought were on every E8. I'm basically trying to help Scott avoid the factory making mistakes and needed additional guidance from an expert such as yourself.

The fact that a lever exists and the reason why, which you did a fine job explaining is much appreciated. Unfortunately, I'm still not sure if what Scott's factory designers made, is to replicate the lever, or something else, which leaves me not 100% convinced that their attempt is for the lever (or American Models tooling for that matter…)

And as I stated, you are an expert with prototype trains. If there was any potential for this blob to be anything other than the lever you have discussed, then I believe you would have mentioned the possibilities, thus I am willing to accept that this is the factory's attempt at the hatch lever.

In any case, I meant no offense to you. Just trying to solve a mystery.

[up148]

I made a big boo-boo about winterization hatches. I was thinking of the UP snow shields, not the winterization hatches, when I made my sweeping statement. Of course numerous roads ran with the hatches, but the UP was the only road to use the snow shields which are placed above the winterization hatches. This had to do with ice melting and dripping on the electrical panel under the exhaust fan with the winterization hatches.

BH

[aterry11]

Dave, I apologize for any unkindness directed toward you based on my advice to ask elsewhere.
I am basing my postulation on the idea that as the diesel warms up to operating temperature the servo would augment the ducting position to achieve the best cooling. I speculate based on a F unit having the same 4 fan configuration and usually only one fan has a winterization hatch, and my assumption that an E unit has a larger motor thus a greater need for cooling and a longer warm up time hence the double fan enclosure on the E unit. The servo is an automatic adjustment feature to achieve that end.
I took this idea from Porsche and VW who have ducting in the cooling tin and a thermostat that regulates the position of the ducting controlling the air flow.
I guess knowing if the fans in question are for drawing air in or for evacuation would help.
I would also assume different roads would require different setups for the actual operating area the engine serves. Example its really cold in San Francisco in the morning but after the haze burns off it jumps in temp dramatically.
To quote a Bob, strictly opinion..
There is an answer and I'm really sure its interesting.

[DaveJfr0]

NBD. You were right to point me to the EMD expert. Hopefully Scott's factory knows what its doing. Got 3 units on order and the less I have to fix, the better, tho this part is gonna be on every unit, so if its wrong, lotsa people will be affected.

[rex desilets]

Is this the lump of which we speak?
[url]http://webpages.charter.net/dbrohm/images/Silvis%20(8)%20[800x600].JPG[/url]

[gnnpnut]

Since I read this here first, and then went to OGR, I'll post what I found on the E8 here.

Go to the following link, and to go page 59 of 93 for the verbiage, and to page 60 of 93 for an illustration showing the air flow. The valve is nothing more than an damper, and is manually operated.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/manual/e8-om.pdf

Regards,
GNNPNUT

[DaveJfr0]

Jerry,

Thanks for the manual. Cool to see the diagram. Sadly, the manual doesn't show more on what the levers on the roof would like.



Rex - That is the hatch (the big lump), but not the 2 lumps (one on each side of the hatch) that I care about, which are pointed to in the picture I posted over on OGR:

[aterry11]

WOW neat book, super read but vague on many things. In diagram 4.6 air schematic system there are four shutter cylinders but no explanation of wht they are or where they go.
The PRR guys will hate that as I cant find a photo of a PRR E8 with even a lever on the side of the hatch. There appears to be a lift ring in that location in most photos.
In all the looking I cant find one photo that shows that part on the roof near the winterization hatch on any road. Simple suggestion Omit it on all units it is easier to add them if required that to remove and try to match paint.