1941 City of Los Angeles

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R.K. Maroon
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby R.K. Maroon » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:23 pm

De Bruin wrote:Do these old drives with a big straight cut gear like this have any kind of viability/duration for/in continuous operation?

This is a good question. I am going to guess if you ran those drives continuously you would wear out the worm gears on the axles ten times and still not wear out those large spur gears connecting the motor to the worm shaft. I say that for two reasons. First, worm gears having sliding contact, which is high friction compared to spur gears, which have rolling contact. Additionally, the tooth stress in a gear is more-or-less inversely proportional to the gear diameter (all else being equal). That is, the small-diameter worm gears on the axles will have much higher tooth-stress than the large diameter spur gears. There can be mitigating effects, such as out-of-round or wobbly gears, but overall I'm betting those big spurs gears would last a long time -- if you could stand the growl.

Nortonville Phil wrote:..that PA it looks like a cast shell to me.

Agreed. Bob is not enamored with it and with good reason, but the collectors out there will value it as a piece of history (so, no, don't melt it down). My history-minded self just wants to know where it came from.

Nortonville Phil wrote:I wonder if Exacta ever made a copper PA.

I don't know -- The immediate post-war era produced a flurry of models. Only a handful sold in enough quantity to be well known (Varney Ten-Wheeler, GMC NW-2, Atwater F3, etc). Most other models have only scant documentation, if that. Some are rare enough to be mythical, and it's anybody's guess on those.

Jim
Slow progress is better than no progress

Carey Williams
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby Carey Williams » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:28 pm

Hello Brass brick brothers

Jim and Brian thank you for posting the new and interesting photos ... .. seems no two pieces are the same ... and so many of the early diesels are found as piles of "potential". ...The early diesel kits as sold were a bit daunting for the causal hobbyist..... easy to see why the Atwater/ GM/AN was a run away success...leaving many a diesel kit partially finish or never attempted.

Today the cat dragged in ( with the help of a handcart ) 62 pounds ( encase Bob wishes to calculate scrap value) of brass. ..please see Baldwin posting viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17174

for the latest exciting update with the E8's !

The balance of the 62 pounds is posted here ...

kit A unit is found within a generic box written Siebers circa 1948 ...... casting marked "Adams & Son ..Model Foundry" ..no town or state

the more or less complete A unit ...appears to also be Adams castings ... but a different top casting .... both have the same "Siebers" drive trucks ....
complete A unit seems to have been plated nickle ? / chrome ? ... part of the road name decal ends with "Midland" .... this must have been one shiny engine when younger. ..... remains of outside 3rd rail mounts still present ....now draw your undivided attention to the stud sticking up through the roof ( dedicated opening in casting) towards the back ..(currently missing it's knob) ..yes that is the prototypical reverse unit found on all EMC units .

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And now a mystery ( to me anyhow ) who made this block of brass ??? one piece body akin to Baldwin ...but much better lines ( in my humble opinion) ...why yes those are wood blocks inside .... what you see is what there is ...just needs a floor, drives , motor , flashy paint job ...... compare noses ...this is not an Adams ... ..this one piece body was leaps ahead of the Adams & Siebers marriage ..as you could buy the whole mess from one maker ...and the maker is ?




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Thank you
Cheers Carey

PS the PA is lovely in it's own right.. perhaps not lovely, but it is unique and deserves to be saved .... the perfect among us can cast the first brass brick

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R.K. Maroon
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby R.K. Maroon » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:29 pm

Adams and Son offered two different E-unit roofs. The first was introduced with the "EMC Passenger" set, which was the E6. Siebers Bros used the A&S casting sets (and added sides and drives), so the early Siebers Bros. models have the early A&S roof:

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This roof is inaccurate. There was, as far I can tell, no E-unit with offset stacks. One often sees these reworked with Keil Line (now Scale City) or CLW parts.

A&S corrected the roof more-or-less around the time they introduced the E7 casting set. Siebers Bros. offered the E6 (and maybe the E7) with either roof. I think they referred to them as "early and later" but I would have to check. This is the later roof:

Siebers Bros 01.JPG
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I would guess the hole for the reverser was drilled by the modeler. The standard installation (to the extent that there was such a thing) was to put the reverser in the fuel tank with the lever out the sides.

No idea about the other unit:

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Not likely a commercial product, as all the detail looks to be added on (which looks like it was a tedious affair to say the least). A commercial casting would have the detail in the pattern to save the time (and associated cost) of adding the detail.

Jim
Slow progress is better than no progress

railandsail
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby railandsail » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:29 pm

I posted some photos of some misc old trains found be a fellow here in St Augustine FL. They can be found on these 2 pages under my name 'railandsail'

http://www.modeltrainjournal.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15721&start=120
http://www.modeltrainjournal.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15721&start=135

The fellow that owns them is not a model railroader, and the scale is not to my liking (HO), so would anyone be interested in making an offer I could transmit to him??

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R.K. Maroon
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby R.K. Maroon » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:15 pm

The City of Los Angeles project still languishes, but I want to keep the thread alive so I'll post up this nice Siebers Bros. E7:

Image

It needs a bit of cleaning and restoration but it does run. Somebody put a good amount of time and talent into the paint job:

Image

Siebers Bros. was one of several companies that used the Adams and Son casting sets in their complete E-unit models. The casting sets for the E6 and E7 did not include sides or drives, however, and as such inspection of these items is what differentiates one manufacturer's locomotive model from another. The big center tower drive is the easy tell that this one is a Siebers Bros.:

Image
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bob turner
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby bob turner » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:12 pm

Glad you saved the thread. My side casting master project got side tracked. I need to do some B unit castings in aluminum, then convert to bronze for the A. The A should work on either the E-6 or E-7. I think they will be quite nice.

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R.K. Maroon
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby R.K. Maroon » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:40 pm

It's been a exactly a year since my last post on this thread, and it was just a placeholder to keep the thread alive. This would be embarrassing but I find the older I get the less shame I have. So I'm going to do it again:

I am concurrently posting photos of CLW cast Alco PAs on this forum, whilst pondering which models will get assigned to which railroads. Union Pacific had the highest ratio of PBs (6) to PAs (8) of any railroad, so photos of AA sets in Uncle Pete's Armour Yellow would be rare to say the least (or so I would think). Thank goodness for the internet:

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/514442/

Would I put a pair of PAs on the head-end of the 1941 City of Los Angeles? Generally, no. I see this as no problem, as a shorter generic UP streamliner (mostly Kasiner cars) is on the roster, in front of which an AA set of PAs would be perfectly suited (opinion).

Neat mixed train in the photo, yes?

Jim
Slow progress is better than no progress

bob turner
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby bob turner » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:53 pm

Yes. Now that you mention it, I do not remember UP PAs on the front of passenger trains. I have the Kratville books, so I shall look.

bob turner
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby bob turner » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:19 pm

Yep. UP did use PAs on passenger trains, including those with the Armour Yellow and grey cars that were lettered for the "City" streamliners. I found photos in "Streamliners" (Kratville) and "Passenger Alcos" by Jim Boyd. One shows an A-B-A on the "City of St.Louis" going around Sullivan's curve.

The problem is - there were only two sets (I think) and they were delivered in 1947 and converted to freight gearing in 1954. I do not let that stop me - I have an ABA on my K-Line fleet of UP cars.

But the most accurate would be the E6 setup that Allan had planned. And I will never own an E6. I do have a UP E7.

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ScaleCraft
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby ScaleCraft » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:39 pm

On topic/off topic. I was youtubing last night, found 16mm films of SoCal from 40's and 50's. Showed SP Daylight E-2' (or so it said), looked like A-B-A, two were rectangular windows (E-7)...one had at least seven chrome ringed portholes. Three closely arranged (like an FT), big space, three more, small space, and what looked like a single at the end.
What version was THAT?
Last edited by ScaleCraft on Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dave....collector, restorer, and operator of the finest doorstops

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ScaleCraft
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby ScaleCraft » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:46 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WnR9EXggck
at about one minute, UP PA.

At 7 minutes, the E-2.

Note the San Diego and Arizona steamer. Back-up Mallets, UP FM passenger, ATSF center cab Baldwain.

Four videos.
Dave....collector, restorer, and operator of the finest doorstops

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R.K. Maroon
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby R.K. Maroon » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:27 pm

SP E7 #6017 started life as SF-1, the E-2 A-unit for the City of San Francisco (joint SP/UP/C&NW). When the original power set was broken up (following replacement after the war), the SP got the A unit. It was eventually rebuilt into an E7. Originally Armour Yellow, it was painted in SP colors before the conversion:

Image

Very interesting unit -- the only porthole E in SP colors that I know of.

Thanks for sharing the video link. Could waste a lot of time here.

Jim
Slow progress is better than no progress

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big bad jim
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby big bad jim » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:12 am

I really should get started on those COLA trucks. I mean it this time..... :roll:

bob turner
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby bob turner » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:16 am

Weren't the E8s and 9s porthole?

Jim - COLA trucks? Photo? I had Dennis cast up some unusual UP trucks. I only do one piece trucks, and they are semi-crude, but I am interested.

And a correction: UP had a total of 14 Alcos. I did not count the Bs - but I am gueesing 10 PAs and 4 PBs. Probably close.

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ScaleCraft
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Re: 1941 City of Los Angeles

Postby ScaleCraft » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:34 am

bob turner wrote:Weren't the E8s and 9s porthole?

Not like that unit from the EsPee.

Four equally spaced, and not generally surrounded by chrome rings.

Look at the video, go to 7 minutes (and again a bit later). Group of three, big gap, group of three, gap, one. Makes 7 per side.
Dave....collector, restorer, and operator of the finest doorstops


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