Missouri Pacific PA,s from SSM

[bob turner]

Here is one of Cole's photos, modified:

image.jpeg (894.39 KiB) Viewed 6600 times

Note the area above the windshield. I am beginning to think it is an optical illusion; check out Erik's excellent SP Daylight PA video on NK. Sure wish he posted this nice stuff here!

Anyway, I do not see the same eyebrow width on the SP units.

[E7]

Here is one of Cole's photos, modified:

image.jpeg

Note the area above the windshield. I am beginning to think it is an optical illusion; check out Erik's excellent SP Daylight PA video on NK. Sure wish he posted this nice stuff here!

Anyway, I do not see the same eyebrow width on the SP units.

On many of the prototype shots I see, there appears to be what I would call a drip edge (like there used to be above automobile side windows) that breaks up the panel above the windshield. The headlight treatment offends my sensibilities enough that I seldom get back to the windshield.

The color of the model makes it difficult (at least for me) to detect contours.

[ScaleCraft]

Here is one of Cole's photos, modified:

image.jpeg

Note the area above the windshield. I am beginning to think it is an optical illusion; check out Erik's excellent SP Daylight PA video on NK. Sure wish he posted this nice stuff here!

Anyway, I do not see the same eyebrow width on the SP units.

https://www.american-rails.com/alco-pa.html#
I have noticed in research over the years some variation in windows from different roads. Chrome strips, no chrome, drip rails... but, look at the ATSF unit, sure seems from this angle the windows are bigger, forehead less pronounced, and A pillar thinner. And no chrome strips around windows. Hard to tell if there is a drip rail with the chrome strip over the top.

https://www.american-rails.com/alco-pa.html#
Chrome strips.

https://www.american-rails.com/alco-pa.html#
Drip rail and very pronounced window rubber.

https://www.american-rails.com/alco-pa.html#
No drip rail? Cab roof grab irons.

https://www.american-rails.com/alco-pa.html#
Cab roof grab irons, and you can see pretty good the window size.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... /D-H18.jpg
Interesting. The protrusion in the middle of the roof between windows seems to be another number board....D&H had them, ATSF in later years seems to have had them (memory...didn't ATSF buy some D&H units, or was it the other way around?

[sarge]

Dave

The four D&H ones were bought from Santa Fe. They went for a rebuild at MK in the mid-70s. After Conrail happened, they (along with most of the Alcos on D&H) were sold to Mexico. Two remain there on display and the other two are the hulks Doyle M. brought back, one for Smithsonian and the other (now painted NKP) his. They came back short some trucks, I believe, and he found replacements from Canada, some old FM Erie-built B-unit that somehow found its way up there.

Those little centre number boards were a Santa Fe trademark.

As far as the drip gutters behind the cab doors, they got deleted on later production (PA3), and quite a number of variations such as chromed or rubber booting on windscreens varied or changed as production went on.

A lot of nose grabs were an addition due to either a railroad's or the FRA's requirements for safety while accessing the windscreens and such; dates of photos become important since these changes would be present on the same unit at different times.

[De Bruin]

Actually the roof mounted forward road # "sconces" on Alco cabs were also a feature of GM&O's early FA-1 fleet too, which I believe predate the delivery of AT&SF's first PA-1's by some months, note the unique-to-these-unit's drip rail too. The GM&O's first two PA-1's were also delivered with the road# "sconce" as well in late '46, GM&O similarly modified at least one of their two DL-105's some years after delivery as well
http://rr-fallenflags.org/gmo/gmo0700o20.jpg


Kudos to SC Dave; in my opinion the perceived vertical window area height is indeed effected by color, grabs and windshield "sash" etc.
as in our minds see what they want to see, but not always the true proportion. I'm way okay with these SS models, hopefully I'll get one.

On a different and more immediate note for me, I have one of the dreaded "2nd phase" CLW PA's with that "C-Liner" like windshield; I'll be spending some time trying to "trick" my mind on how to compensate for that when I finish that dude.

[sarge]

I might have to chase down a D&H one one day (I assume Scott did them?) I have some fond memories of those things and some of the people who were part of that era, George Hockaday and Bruce Sterzing. Both were gentlemen and very much responsible for a rather interesting era on D&H and in the northeast, especially against the tableau of PC and receiverships.

[bob turner]

That CLW nose is realistically beyond redemption. The part in front of the windshield is too short and not tapered, and the windshield area is way too high.

But I have a modified example, with taper and plated-over windshield, which you are welcome to. I can ship it, or give it to Jim next time I see him.

[De Bruin]

Generous offer Bob, thanks. I'll check with Jim to see when he's planning to be out there again.
The irony is I bought the unit specifically to get the drive out of it for a LWS Stephenson repro project, but then Jim snagged another spare drive at the Chicago meet so I decided to finish it for service on the downtown club. I agree the nose on these is fearsomely off.

[E7]

I agree the nose on these is fearsomely off.

Toss in a few curves, even subtle ones, and accuracy tends to suffer. Considering some of the stuff that some modelers?? have accepted, makes me wonder if they have EVER seen a picture of the prototype? Do they not notice, do they not care, are they efffing blind? They will rant and rave over something like a tank drive that is not really all the visible, and go on seemingly oblivious to fairly obvious cosmetic deficiencies. Beats me.

[bob turner]

The peculiar thing is Bob Smith got the nose pretty close on his first attempt (the doorstop PAs) and then blew it so badly on this one. I asked him about it, and he said there was nothing wrong with the newer lost wax nose. I did not argue.

[E7]

The peculiar thing is Bob Smith got the nose pretty close on his first attempt (the doorstop PAs) and then blew it so badly on this one. I asked him about it, and he said there was nothing wrong with the newer lost wax nose. I did not argue.

Makes you wonder if others see the same thing exactly as you! All people are different with different talents and skills, and the lack thereof.

[bob turner]

Well, yeah, but the nose in question is so dramatically off that nobody, other than Smith, could defend it when compared with photos of the real thing. Sunset and Lionel have both done superb jobs of reproducing the contours.

[E7]

Well, yeah, but the nose in question is so dramatically off that nobody, other than Smith, could defend it when compared with photos of the real thing. Sunset and Lionel have both done superb jobs of reproducing the contours.

One factor might be his age/health when he did the various versions. Not trying to play "defense attorney" here, just speculating what the reason may have been.

[bob turner]

His health was a factor when I knew him, but he seemed pretty sharp. Producing that PA was a masterful achievement - note the trucks and the gearboxes. The nose casting was the only serious flaw.

On the GMO FA - I think that was a one-off. Several distinctive differences.

Beauty is in the eye - I think the E-7 and the PA are the two singularly attractive Diesels. Way down, but still appealing - the SD 7/9, the Train Master, and the NW.

[E7]

On the GMO FA - I think that was a one-off. Several distinctive differences.

I think maybe not. Look at Pete's post on page 4 of Bill B's Sunset PA topic. The nose is in shadow, but you can see the headlight is sitting lower (at least it looks that way to me).....it probably could be lightened with photoshop.