O scale a rich's mans hobby circa 1946

[ScaleCraft]

Dave:
Different? Yes.

Difficult? No.

It only seems to be a difficulty in the world of 1.25" gauge-based scales in America. Everyone else doesn't seem to find it difficult at all.

Odd, that.

And (virtually) not a lot of other scales have three rail to have any comparison.
We are also talking clueless hobbyists.
In three rail, you never have (have) to wire up a revering polarity switch. You can do blocks with knife switches (and I recall many decades ago doing that). Sure you can with two rail...unless you want two cabs or block reversal.
Bridge Rectumfriers. Unless you go DC on your three rail, never even see one, much less know how to wire it up.

Once you know how to do it, two rail anything isn't a big deal...but if you never have, it's throw your hands in the air and run screaming into the forest.

Downside, in either outside or inside third, is right rail positive forward. There is no such thing.
If you want to put together four F units, at least two of them pointing the other direction, you may find what "coupler failure" is all about.

I do both. 65 years of trains, and I don't have any problems with it, altho I refuse to even consider dcc, but that is a personal....opinion.

[Chris Rock]

I was in 3 rail for 20 or so years. When I told people that I was switching to 2 rail, I got a rash of horror stories about wiring and other things. The wiring turrned out to be different as Sarge says, but it certainly is not difficult. Scalecraft has a point, though, I've found most "difficulties" are really PEOPLE problems, not train or wiring problems.

[ScaleCraft]

I think that's what I said. Something about "clueless hobbyists".
I do both. I have never had any issues.
Got any reverse loops on your two rail?

Funny part is trying to get those "clueless hobbyists" who have moved into 2-rail to understand simplicity.
Take a reverse loop, and having them trying to figure out polarity.

Easiest thing is a red (only) signal wired across the gaps, one at each end.
If the light is red, the next block polarity is wrong.

If they can keep their eyes open, never have a problem, but they want to go buy (and figure out) some add-on gizmo to do it for them.

[Seaboard Air Line Fan]

I was in 3 rail for 20 or so years. When I told people that I was switching to 2 rail, I got a rash of horror stories about wiring and other things. The wiring turned out to be different as Sarge says, but it certainly is not difficult. Scalecraft has a point, though, I've found most "difficulties" are really PEOPLE problems, not train or wiring problems.

Same thing when I yanked out the middle rail and went battery-powered, remote-control (BPRC)...the "gurus" said it couldn't be done

I'm not rich or well off by any stretch of the imagination, what I do is focus (for the most part) on a single RR, Seaboard Air Line. Modeling the SAL itself will prevent me from spending gobs of $$$, cause there isn't hardly anything offered that's close to being prototypically correct.

But for a newbie just starting out, well....

I tried to look up like brands/items that were in both 2-rail and 3-rail O scale to compare prices, but I had to take delivery of some of my daughter's stuff (she's coming home tomorrow from Sicily!).

I wanted to find a similar engine in 2 and 3 rail so I looked at Atlas' online offerings:
A Trainman RS3 - 2 or 3-rail $250
A Trainman 40' boxcar - 3-rail $40, 2-rail $55
An Extended Vision caboose - 3-rail $40, 2-rail $43
A circle of track - 3rail 16 pieces of 090 curved @$16/ea = $240
2rail 16 pieces of 45" radius @$11/ea = $176
Appropriate power source - no clue

That's about as lean as I can make getting into O-scale. I'm not talking about at a show, or discount store, but more or less MSRP.

If you go by those figures, 2-rail IS CHEAPER by $50, not counting a power source.

I don't know much about a simple AC or DC PS that would move an engine down the track. All I've ever had prior to battery-power was DCS or TMCC, both can get expensive. BPRC can run close to $200 for an initial outlay.

We all know you can get those parts cheaper, but when a newbie goes looking, that's what he/she/it is going to see.

[Chris Rock]

Got any reverse loops on your two rail?

I have 2 reverse loops on the layout. The green illustration is easy to spot. There's one in the lobe and dotted line mess in red illustrated below for the middle and upper levels of the layout.

[ScaleCraft]

And there you go. How would you wire those reverse loops in three rail?

Radio/Battery. I have been exclusively radio/battery for almost 25 years in #1 gauge. Today is battery charge day, three smart chargers doing 14 engines and spare packs for the regularly scheduled Ops Session tomorrow.

I am well aware of how it works.

I also know the current required for open frame and especially field would motors (oh, like postwar Lionel) and haven't done any of those, as I am not about to put any 787's in my shop or worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3ZOvhRNwU through about 1:25. One of the classics.

[Carey Williams]

Hello Sarge and the world

I had not considered the "MIP" factor into train collecting

"MIP", multum in parvo: much in a little

Your words could not be more true .

Last week whilst looking down from the balcony of the Science and Industry Museum upon the desecrated sacred ground that once held Minton's RR, seeing a busy mass of colonized ants scurrying around the current HO layout .

Where as on Minton's RR ( in it's last configuration) two trains paced the countryside, now no less then 7 chase each other from Chicago to Seattle .

Varney must have had a reliable fortune teller, dumping O gauge for HO. If the test example consumer has X to spend would he not get more enjoyment out of 3 or 4 purchases totaling X and occupying the same volume that he was able to negotiate in his man cave?

Perhaps is was the post war spread to the suburbs with wide open spaces that called for crowded small layouts reminiscent of the old times.

During the 30's very few had very little to spend, during the war you were preached to get along with what you had to curb demand ....and as soon as the last bomb was dropped, it was spend , spend, spend ...( still going on today) . So smaller gauges make sense to purge all that money in your pocket by buying more and not risk expanding the walls ( wall expansion could be needed in extreme cases : see reality TV ) .

Post war peaceful America was filled with strife and conflict as workers thought they were in France striking right and left trying to paralyze the country for a few extra bucks to buy more trains.

July 1946 Model Railroader has a curious cover .....COAL STRIKE ! we have asked our advertisers to take smaller ads during this shortage of paper..( you cannot make this type of thing up) . August 1946 MR Huge issue but the paper has now switched to pulp ..due to total lack of slick paper thanks to various sympathy strikes around the country .

President Harry Truman decided that the unions had gone too far, and after the railroad workers rejected a settlement, he seized control of the railroads. Despite the government takeover, the workers continued with their strike plans. As a result, on May 24, 1946, Truman issued an ultimatum declaring that the government would operate the railroads and use the army as strikebreakers. When the deadline passed, Truman went before Congress to seek the power to deny seniority rights to strikers and to draft strikers into the armed forces. Just as Truman reached the climax of his speech, he received a note saying that the strike was “settled on the terms proposed by the President.”

It was an interesting time in history ... and the shrinking of model trains

Also in August 1946 MR interesting line or two about the nature of companies making the trains.... before the war they were hungry for work any work ... after the war economy was booming ... side jobs not needed

Just pontifications .. feel free to take a swing

Cheers Carey

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[Rufus T. Firefly]

Modeling the SAL itself will prevent me from spending gobs of $$$, cause there isn't hardly anything offered that's close to being prototypically correct.

Self-imposed boundary conditions place limitations on and control excess that model RR'ers are prone to embrace. They also permit your being able to purchase those critically "needed" items that are envisioned as being required for you to reach your objectives, while restricting you from falling into unrealistic temptation. Focus is attained.

That's about as lean as I can make getting into O-scale. I'm not talking about at a show, or discount store, but more or less MSRP.

We all know you can get those parts cheaper, but when a newbie goes looking, that's what he/she/it is going to see.

Indeed and also why I tend to advise newbie's to not be captured by a specific brand name or jump into the pond blindfolded by a catalog from whoever. They need to get out and see what's available and what others are doing / using, and then try to make some decisions regarding desires and objectives; givens and druthers..... And then they can go shopping with specifics in mind and hand.....like spending the morning at the Strasburg meet in 2 weeks.

[Chris Rock]

And there you go. How would you wire those reverse loops in three rail?

In 3 rail you solder some wires to the rails.
In 2 rail you solder some wires to the rails through a reverser.
Neither is difficult.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

And there you go. How would you wire those reverse loops in three rail?

In 3 rail you solder some wires to the rails.
In 2 rail you solder some wires to the rails through a reverser.
Neither is difficult.

OMG, I have to solder

Whatever will I do? What do I use? Where do I buy it? Can someone do it for me? PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, wait.....all my track is down already.

Never mind,

[ScaleCraft]

And there you go. How would you wire those reverse loops in three rail?

In 3 rail you solder some wires to the rails.
In 2 rail you solder some wires to the rails through a reverser.
Neither is difficult.

Depends on whether you have switches or not. And have to have live frogs....or jumper around....
AC in to a transformer. Find and wire in a rectumfrier. Add fuses. Wire in reverse switch. Connect to two rails...oh, wait, once I get past the switch, what happens now?.

Or, plug your ZW in and clip the lockon onto the rails.

We can argue this all day long.

Then in 2-rail you have common ground....or not.
Now what....if not, do you have separate reverse for each block, or just cab controls?
If a block is reversed from the next, what do you do to deal with that?
Three rail never an issue.

In fact you can plug a whole bunch of power packs in and connect them to blocks in 3-rail...and as long as you polarize the commons....

[Rufus T. Firefly]

And there you go. How would you wire those reverse loops in three rail?

In 3 rail you solder some wires to the rails.
In 2 rail you solder some wires to the rails through a reverser.
Neither is difficult.

Right.

Difficult is finding live wire splices in the wall between the studs in the house I'm renovating when there are receptacles inside the walls....and it's all soldered together 12/2.

[Chris Rock]

Difficult is finding live wire splices in the wall between the studs in the house I'm renovating when there are receptacles inside the walls....and it's all soldered together 12/2.

Rufus, correct perspective.

It is more difficult to shake pepper out of the pepper shaker than it is to shake salt out of the salt shaker. It's just too hard. Don't even get me started on the topic of a pepper grinder. That just adds more complication and makes it even harder. I mean, how does one know what to twist or crank or whatever, and what end does the pepper come out of on those contraptions?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Difficult is finding live wire splices in the wall between the studs in the house I'm renovating when there are receptacles inside the walls....and it's all soldered together 12/2.

Rufus, correct perspective.

It is more difficult to shake pepper out of the pepper shaker than it is to shake salt out of the salt shaker. It's just too hard. Don't even get me started on the topic of a pepper grinder. That just adds more complication and makes it even harder. I mean, how does one know what to twist or crank or whatever, and what end does the pepper come out of on those contraptions?

Remind me to keep the nutmeg grater away from you. Cthulhu knows what horrors might ensure with your intersection with such a device.

[ScaleCraft]

Difficult is finding live wire splices in the wall between the studs in the house I'm renovating when there are receptacles inside the walls....and it's all soldered together 12/2.

True. Knob and Tube...soldered and taped....and you haven't lived until 60 year old solder joints start failing, overheating, and you get fire in the wall.

Got rid of the last Knob and Tube in this place 40 years ago, and some of those "joints" were scary.