Bay State DL-109 Restoration Project

[R.K. Maroon]

The cast-aluminum Bay State DL-109 is one of the least common locomotives of the early post-war years. I have seen only a handful and none of them have been in track-ready condition. This includes the two I currently own. This first one is shown as it arrived:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/b4vx9m224vurbx9j7cgvb/Bay-State-DL-109-1_01.jpg?rlkey=vtyr54n233kwe9j75jgdndax2&st=n6p0x8vw

Though it arrived with one truck disassembled, it appeared at first inspection to be mostly complete and original. Here is the chassis:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9c70j5x0dximuhzl3l43b/Bay-State-DL-109-1_03.jpg?rlkey=h799an2ebabf8hecsnvgwvcit&st=l7ehha5c

Here is the second unit, with the chassis already removed:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t7ong9edec8cobtfvfb34/Bay-State-DL-109-2_01.jpg?rlkey=bltcnmu0x8i0izgbwrfhcean7&st=v8nz7tdq

With the exception of the rectifier (and probably wire), this unit is otherwise complete and original.

These have finally floated to the top of the restoration queue, and will be my next big project.

A discussion of target prototypes next.

Jim

[up148]

Cool model. Is that a partial brass roof with aluminum details?

The DL109 is one of those diesels that is an acquired taste. I never saw any in the Midwest so maybe that's it.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Looks like the one is missing the center weight?

Is that a partial brass roof with aluminum details?

Looking forward to seeing after these are stripped down just what the construction material(s) are all around.

[E7]

The DL109 is one of those diesels that is an acquired taste. I never saw any in the Midwest so maybe that's it.

Butch, I don't recall ever seeing any here in the East, but I was not well traveled in my youth.

Rich

[up148]

Looking online it shows this list, but there could have easily been more. They were operated between 1939-45.

The New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad was the primary operator of the ALCO DL-109, purchasing 60 of the 74 units built. Other minor operators included the Chicago and North Western, Santa Fe (AT&SF), Rock Island, and Gulf, Mobile and Ohio railroads.

[SWrailroader]

Jim,
This is a great topic IMO. Some really love the Alco PA, but I prefer the DL109. Something about its lines suggests Art Deco.

Plus Otto Kuhler designed it. His designs were on the MR Hiawatha streamline pieces. Truly a renaissance man making numerous industrial paintings. He retired to NM and continued to paint until he died. I was lucky enough to get one of his paintings of ATSF steam climbing a mountain. The painting really transports one to the 1940s.

Don’ t make fun of me, but I have four of Overland Dl109s: Two DL109A of the New Haven and ATSF DL109A-B. I think Bob T mentioned that he had four Lobaugh SP 4-8-2 so he probably gets collecting something in excess.

Your models appear to based on the New Haven. This is based on the square shaped roof vents whereas on the ATSF they were round.

Thanks for starting the topic.

[Pacific Limited]

Cool!

[R.K. Maroon]

Thanks for the replies and interest. To answer a few questions:

Is that a partial brass roof with aluminum details?

Yes. More details on construction will be provided as we go along. As Martin implied, all will be revealed once the paint is removed.

Looks like the one is missing the center weight?

Correct. I do not know if the weight is a factory item or added. I tend the remove such things and only add back weight if wheel slippage or electrical contact to the rails is a real problem. With a cast model sporting two motorized C-trucks, I am betting the weight is not needed.

As to the target railroad, let's start with a table showing who had them and how many. Note that I make no distinction between the DL-103, DL-105, DL-107, or DL-109. They are all lumped together here:



How to make a decision....hmm

Your models appear to based on the New Haven. This is based on the square shaped roof vents whereas on the ATSF they were round

This counts but also doesn't count. These are going all the way down and will require machining and other work to fix some inaccuracies. At that point, changing details to match the target prototype is fair game. Note also, as an aside, that the New Haven had more than one configuration due to changes during the extended production run and modifications made after delivery. One can go down into the weeds pretty far on this type of thing, but I find tall weeds to be full of chiggers, so I tend to stay away if I can.

My decision matrix is based on two questions: Do I have a passenger train for the target railroad, and do I already own a suitable passenger locomotive to pull that train. Here is the matrix:



As shown, the only railroad that had the DL-109 for which I have a passenger train but no motive power is the New Haven. As it is, the New Haven consist in hand is a nice long string of Walthers heavyweights. As it was, the New Haven generally ran their Dl-109s back-to-back in AA pairs for long passenger trains. That all makes the decision easy -- New Haven it is for both units. As a bonus, the New Haven had something like eight paint schemes for these, so lots of choices.

Onward
Jim

[SWrailroader]

Jim,
The other plus about your models is that they have the single headlight. Something about the duel headlight detracts IMO. Except maybe the Rock Island version.

One of my NH has the McGinnis paint scheme. That’s the one with orange, black and white scheme like so many of their EP-5s. The previous owner did the paint work. It must have been tedious but came out nice.it really screams 1950s mid century modern.

Will be watching your project with interest.
Rob

[R.K. Maroon]

I am tempted to respond to Rob's comments about one or two headlights and launch into a survey of all the different versions that ever were. I will resist and press on, but it is surprising, given the small production run and short list of owners, how many different varieties there were.

The first big milestone on the project is to restore the chassis for unit #1. This chassis appeared to be complete at first glance, but a closer look revealed some issues. For reference, here is the chassis for unit #2, which is more clearly original and complete, and fully assembled to boot:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/aodv5fc2xlnugaswwqzvx/Bay-State-DL-109-2_02.jpg?rlkey=1j8spbag3jta7x4drhvmrthjk&st=dfst60of

As can be seen, the chassis consists of a pair of power trucks. The power trucks are supported by a steel bar "tongue", cantilevered from the cast-aluminum frame in the center:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/il8sd566mzt0836579ndp/Bay-State-DL-109-2_05.jpg?rlkey=2iw2i5ndeodv6fdkwplo8dac6&st=kfsiom6i

Each power truck consists of a vertical wound-field K&D #2 motor driving the center axle via a worm gear setup. Steel chain on brass sprockets drives the outside axles:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/78ht18vn5j8ogb9neartr/Bay-State-DL-109-2_04.jpg?rlkey=mwr7gipaz9uvrmdd1xmm3c5c1&st=g2mrteew

Note that you can see the steel bar that supports the truck behind and to the left.

Inspection of the gearing indicates that a double-turn worm on the motor turns a thirty-tooth worm gear on the axle for a 15:1 ratio. That is a little low for a passenger locomotive, but I like to run slower than Lionel speeds, so I am OK with it. The gears have very little wear. This is unusual for a model this old that is complete and running. From what I gather, most modelers back in the 1940s were lucky to have even one locomotive, and if they had one that was operable, they ran it.

Chassis #1 next

Jim

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I see now that the center wheels are blind. I could actually run such on my layout and it would only look moderately silly,

[up148]

Have you ever heard one run? I look forward to that experience. Certainly there will be the whine of the chain drives, but no idea what else. Interesting restoration for sure.

[R.K. Maroon]

Have you ever heard one run?

Yes. The chassis for unit #2 is operable. Here is a video of the arrival-inspection test run from a year ago:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ie4u6h40cdeb5o5p77766/Bay-State-DL-109-2-Chassis-Test-Run.mp4?rlkey=43b9mmw3po1ubhbqxlnkgwr99&st=dax9pf6p

I was surprised that it ran so well but not surprised that it's not particularly noisy. I can only say that because I had a similar experience with a test run of the very similar drive from a Baldwin Models GG1 over a decade ago:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/uqyt9xw5skadj548cjiqc/Baldwin-GG1-Chassis-Test-Run.mp4?rlkey=k4te3sbce9x5fw5pxhlelqczk&st=03d942w3

I thought that the chain drive would rattle like pennies in a tin can, so it was a pleasant surprise to find it wasn't any louder than the average vintage locomotive.

I see now that the center wheels are blind

Yes -- Not a happy feature. It's not all that common, but vintage C-truck diesels from the doorstop era are sometimes found with blind center drivers.

Jim

[SWrailroader]

Jim,
Thank you for sharing the test videos. Both are very informative. It is surprising and a little bewildering about the relatively low noise. I think some of my old Marklin HO stuff is louder. This is a nice beginning to your project.
Rob

[R.K. Maroon]

As shown in the last couple of posts, the chassis for unit #2 is complete and operable. The wiring is a mess and blind center drivers leave something to be desired, but all-in-all the chassis and drive are in remarkably good shape. By comparison, the chassis on unit #1 is something of a mess. The two power trucks are there, but a look at the underside of each truck reveals the problems. Here is the first one:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/t7xjcwa31xh24hn9efzpi/Bay-State-DL-109-1_05.jpg?rlkey=6wnujn9mzilz0pvws6q7xtklv&st=kcsuouhb

The second one is in pieces, but this view shows the worm on the motor shaft and the worm gear on the center axle:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8e1vltnlski29kdtxngbn/Bay-State-DL-109-1_04.jpg?rlkey=u3m79n6ej41zq5hl0twdn2oz0&st=vlgs254k

As can be seen, one truck has a fiber worm gear and the other a bronze worm gear. This works in theory because the fiber gear is fifteen teeth and a single-turn worm, while the bronze gear is thirty teeth with a double-turn worm. But there are all sorts of problems, starting with the fact that the fiber worm gear is stripped out. Next, notice in this photo that all three axles have different diameters, one axle has a journal diameter larger than the others, and the insulating bushing has failed on two of the axles:


https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/0vg6hil5omvs1ap9kk5iu/Bay-State-DL-109-1_06.jpg?rlkey=unoo8taweh0xy23he2o0ugvdo&st=tvznx9r4

There is another problem with that fiber gear: It is smaller than the bronze gear (which is stock). For the worm to engage the smaller fiber gear, the motor had to be moved toward the axle. Not surprisingly, provisions for this were not provided by manufacturer, so whoever thought that this was a good solution had to butcher the truck bolster to do it:



The thought of restoring this makes my head hurt, but, for me, it is a better path than machining a new one.

Bottom line: There is a lot more work to restore all this than originally anticipated. Plan of action next.

Jim