2 rail at last

[robert.]

aaaaa

[bob turner]

That would have been my guess, although always start with Sarge's suggestion. I have not been able to make .115 wheelsets work, although I have had some success with smaller flanges. My minimum wheelset width is around .155".

I have never quite understood why skinny wheels work in HO, yet give me fits on O. I have not spent a lot of time thinking about it, because, like rivets and hand grabs, I like wider wheelsets. Artistic license.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

W/O a reference point or caption, I'm not sure what the message is supposed to be; where did you get the current wheelsets?

[robert.]

That wheel set (in the photo) came with the kit. It's diameter is to small for my turnouts. I replaced it with wheel sets from a Innovative Model Works 40' AAR box car's wheel sets. The box car wheels are larger in diameter.
Also with plastic wheels the trailing truck would go behind the turnout point. sometimes the leading truck would pass behind the point. When the leading truck enters into the frog the trailing truck is entering the point at the same time. Sarge's 3 legged stool might just fix the trailing truck but it wont stop the wheel from falling into the frog.

[rex desilets]

That would have been my guess, although always start with Sarge's suggestion. I have not been able to make .115 wheelsets work, although I have had some success with smaller flanges. My minimum wheelset width is around .155".

I have never quite understood why skinny wheels work in HO, yet give me fits on O. I have not spent a lot of time thinking about it, because, like rivets and hand grabs, I like wider wheelsets. Artistic license.

Possibly because of the difference in flangeways: Per the NMRA Standard S-3.2: O (standard) is 0.077 +0.002 -0.021 inches; HO is 0.048 +0.002 -0.013 inches.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

That wheel set (in the photo) came with the kit. It's diameter is to small for my turnouts. I replaced it with wheel sets from a Innovative Model Works 40' AAR box car's wheel sets. The box car wheels are larger in diameter.
Also with plastic wheels the trailing truck would go behind the turnout point. sometimes the leading truck would pass behind the point. When the leading truck enters into the frog the trailing truck is entering the point at the same time. Sarge's 3 legged stool might just fix the trailing truck but it wont stop the wheel from falling into the frog.

I see. I change all of my wheelsets to IM wheelers - standardization...

Could gig that frog

[sarge]

Without getting deeply into it, the IM plastic wheel tread is too narrow for the combination of flangeway and guard on the old short Atlas turnout (which I think I'm looking at there in your photo). The diameter has nothing to do with it. IM's metal wheelset is wider, so they will work well.

If that is the old Atlas points (about a #2.5 frog; very sharp but useful in tight bits of real estate) I'm looking at, they are famous for frog-picking because of the flangeway width and extreme curvature combination. Experience with them says trimming the tip of the frog back a little bit will allow the flangeway opposite to pick up the guidance before the opposite wheel strikes the tip of the frog. When you trim it back, trim it back still in a point, not bluntly.

You didn't mention the wheel derailing at a set of points previously, so gave you a general solution, not the one needed for the particular case.

[bob turner]

Rex - the loop where I tried the .115 wheelsets has no turnouts or flange guideways. It is my 1 1/8" loop, no superelevation, 64" radius. Wooden ties. The wheelsets were NWSL, and they worked for about two months. Then the temperature changed, and plunk.

If you are precise in laying track, use more spikes than I do, and have a temperature controlled environment, narrow wheel treads will work just fine - except on long steam locomotives.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

If you are precise in laying track, use more spikes than I do, and have a temperature controlled environment, narrow wheel treads will work just fine - except on long steam locomotives.

I never would have thought that I could lay track with adequate precision, yet the finer tread trolley drives work fine on my track as does that Westside H6 that came in with the finer tread. I will admit that there is one curve that does seem to wander just enough for one of the trolley drives to derail. Re-spike and all is good.

[robert.]

Sarge turnout derailment was a later observation. I got the car to track well after removing a burr from the truck's screw head. Yes it is an old Atlas turnout. My track plan worked good for 3 rail. 2 rail not so well. A few changes are in order. My inner loop with turnouts may see trolleys and Interurbans only. my outer loop is a 28 inch radius and the inner loop has a 180% of 17 inch radius. with good advise and elbow grease i'll get it to work well

[Rufus T. Firefly]

My inner loop with turnouts may see trolleys and Interurbans only. my outer loop is a 28 inch radius and the inner loop has a 180% of 17 inch radius.

That 28" radius should work for up to 40' cars and most 4 wheel diesels such as an RS-3. You might get an 0-4-0 around that inner radius; might even get one of the smaller diesel switchers in there, but trolleys would seem doable.

[Nev]

I run a model Railroad that I have built on a budget I'm only a working class person that has limited money I do almost everything myself I enjoy working alone One of my good friends now handles the electrics.
It has about 75 turnouts and the railroad runs every week or more with a group of friends that have no other interest in the railroad except running it with me.
I have very little problems most sessions it's the operators not the railroad that creates problems.
I don't like giving advice on forums because everyone has a different opinion that usually confuses the person who is asking for advice.
If you asked me privately what it takes to run a straight forward "out of the box" O scale 2 rail railroad without problems that you could enjoy without frustration and without getting into how to build it I would tell you three things.
Use Kadees I prefer 805 metal couplings to me they are more robust and I don't run steamers only plastic locos so there is no problem with shorts.
Use metal wheels, I prefer Intermountain wheelsets #IRC 20050 for rolling stock. You can get away with plastic wheels till your budget allows you to buy the metal wheels but the metal wheels track better and don't dirty the track like plastic wheels.
Don't use those early Atlas #3.5's Turnouts use a less sharper like a #4 or #5 if you cannot afford or don't want to build turnouts other than the early Atlas at least use a straight piece of track on the toe and the side point (curve) for an easement, large locos like Weaver diesels have problems with those turnouts I use those turnouts for scenery that is I use them just to park some trucks or wheelsets on at a workshop site but never for train running.
Now at this stage you say "OK smarty pants you know how to build a railroad that has virtually NO derailments, what track do YOU use?"
I sacrifice realism and use English "Peco" code 126 track together with English "Marcway"which use copperclad ties or Peco Turnouts.
In the USA Peco can be bought but not sure if anyone sells the Marcway line of turnouts even though he brings out a range for the US with the ties at their proper spacing and flat bottom track, he calls it (What Else!) American style track.
I had Mark at Marcway make me up eight #4 turnouts once which I found worked fine but on my new layout I am going to try and use nothing smaller than #5's if possible.
There is another fellow in the states building turnouts Oscale Turnouts,inc I haven't tried them but I have seen good reports and of course there are the "Modern" Atlas turnouts.
There are lots of other things involved but you already know this from your HO days.
Because you haven't asked me privately disregard what I have said and listen to the other blokes I told you it would be confusing!
Now I'm going back to laying some track for myself (True!) see you later and good luck.
Nev.

[robert.]

Thanks Nev, Space limitations have me using tight turnouts. It gets even better one turnout is at the top of a grade right after a curve and the second after a curve on the downside. 5x10 has limits in what can be done. my inner loop travels 15 feet to raise 5.75 inches. while doing that it also makes 2 180% turns. I'm Thinking about replacing the 3/4 plywood second level with with 1/4 plywood just to lower the grade. Short trains and slow speed. it will work. I like the idea of a few interurbans. The guy who sells these kits lives a few miles from me. When i get back from miami i'll pay him a visit



http://www.pknd.com/CarKit_C5.html

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Use Kadees I prefer 805 metal couplings to me they are more robust....

More robust that what? I've yet to have any O scale coupler actually fail to work.

[sarge]

Oh, my I certainly have!

Just auto-couplings, now, but the plastic Weaver was notorious for pulled knuckles. The Roco Atlas was solid as a church. In spite of legend, they most certainly were not identical; there is a story about that, though.

I yanked them all and standardised on the Kadee; never regretted that decision.

When the Chinese invasion happened, everyone suddenly had their own automatic it seemed; some worked well with others and some really were awful, even from the same importer. They were very inconsistent.

I stayed standardised on Kadees then, too.