Escaping The U.S.

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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:49 am

up148 wrote:
robert. wrote:I know several people from Eastern Europe that have left. Many had visa and overstayed. They had no fear of deportation. They had fear of financially making it. Most felt if they were going to struggle they would rather struggle at home with family. Once they pack up and go home that is it. It gets really hard to get a visa again. I would bet that many Central Americans are leaving for the same reason. I have been through little Haiti in Miami. It's a sheethole. Voodoo black magic drugs and prostitution. There is a group that had a chance to make things better for themselves. They failed and brought the sheethole with them.


I think that is repeated quite often in our country in many locations. They don't assimilate, they just changed locations.


Pretty much the history of this country.......assimilation is a myth.
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Roy
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby Roy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:58 am

Or, it takes more than one generation.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:02 am

Roy wrote:Or, it takes more than one generation.


Longer, far longer for it to be real.
Conservatism: The intense fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is inferior is being treated as your equal.

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MurphOnMillerAve
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby MurphOnMillerAve » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:27 pm

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:...

Pretty much the history of this country.......assimilation is a myth.

I can't accept that generality, at least not from my perspective as having been a resident of the Pittsburgh metropolitan area, though I can make a strong case in agreement with you, too.

During the 40's and 50's and 60's, it was my experience that the ethnically rich population was very desirous of being assimilated, though not at the expense of being proud of their roots. Jews wanted recognized among their Christian neighborhoods, but assimilated just the same . Italians, Poles, Hungarians, Germans, Czech , Romanian, Irish, Scottish, Yugoslavians, and others reveled in their ethnic foods and local celebrations, but they insisted their children learn English and avoid becoming proficient at an ethnic language at the expense of learning English.

In my own family, which was composed of two distinct ethnicities, grandparents insisted children avoid learning either language and focus on English. Neither of my grandparents spoke to my parents in their "native tongue." Neither parent, though I wanted to learn both ethnic languages , made much effort in having me learn the languages of their parents.

I can clearly recall a visit by one grandmother which amazed me. She went into our broad and wide backyard to harvest among the grass for
Dandelion weeds, which she pulled out by hand, to cook and use in a salad. Everybody was "scandalized," including the neighbors, seeing her out there on her hands-n-knees picking what were considered weeds. She was encouraged to "eat American" and not go out into lawn again for dandelions.

Everybody wanted to be assimilated , not particularly ethnically distinguished.

Little by little , the languages of the various ethnic groups disappeared, except for clandestine conversations held among the most senior immigrant citizens .

Now, that may not be what you had in mind, but what I have related here, in part, exemplifies from my experience, ethnicities and religions wanting to assimilate , while also retaining expertise and appreciation of how to make to such ethnic specialties as the best stuffed-cabbage , pasta-fagioli, and mutza-ball soup, for example .
Last edited by MurphOnMillerAve on Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:40 pm

MurphOnMillerAve wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:...

Pretty much the history of this country.......assimilation is a myth.

I can't accept that generality, at least not from my perspective as having been a resident of the Pittsburgh metropolitan area. During the 40's and 50's and 60's, it was my experience that the ethnically rich population was very desirous of being assimilated, though not at the expense of being proud of their roots.


So, there were no ethic neighborhoods in Pittsburgh? No Chinatown, no Little Italy, no "fill in the blank". Been to Boston, Philly, DC recently?

They may profess to want to be assimilated but not really; maybe what they want more is just be accepted. Something different than everybody waking up to be the same shade of bland grey (ref: Lathe of Heaven).
Conservatism: The intense fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is inferior is being treated as your equal.

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MurphOnMillerAve
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby MurphOnMillerAve » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:51 pm

Definitely no "Chinatown" or "Little Italy," though
there were a couple enclaves of well-off Jews who lived in large and handsome homes, such as it Fox Chapel and Oakland. Most towns I moved among had Eastern European and Mediterranean mixtures throughout them. African-Americans did tend to be isolated, though, but I think that was due to economic factors .

It seemed to me everybody felt like and presented themselves as "Americans."
Perhaps the ending of WW2 had something to do with the desire to be seen as assimilated Americans, not former Europeans.

And I never had the impression anybody felt "bland"'or "grey" as you put it. Rather, everybody seemed to me to be happy to be part of the group, the American group, with dashes of color provided by ethnic pride and religious affiliations.

The folks I knew seemed to be part of The Team, focusing primarily on having a well-paying , though tough, job in the steel mills or in associated businesses.

Cash and a nice house and being able to buy new stuff seemed to be the new ethnicity, the new language, the language of success, of American success.

BTW, Europe was referred to as "The Old Country." You never heard that expression? Maybe you're too young to have heard that. It meant something significant, back then, believe me.

You were "accepted," as you put it, if you worked, which meant having and keeping a job. It also meant working at learning , paying attention at and achieving in school. That meant assimilation as well. You were respected and accepted and, resultantly, assimilated if you were productive.

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rex desilets
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby rex desilets » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:12 pm

Very well said.
On assimilation, as encouraged in the 19th and early 20th centuries, I refer you to Samuel Huntington's Who are We?
Some years back I worked in Philly. My compatriots were either NE Philly Irish or So. Philly Italian. Fully American with an overlay of their previous ethnicities and altogether fine, fine people. Of course, we did have one societal thing to bind us together: The Iggles!
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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:59 pm

rex desilets wrote: The Iggles!


One hopes that they do well......
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Mitch
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby Mitch » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:52 pm

Just down the river a few miles, there is Natrona Hts, then Natrona, and then Tarentum. When I was a kid, Natrona had to have been 90% Polish, and Tarentum was Slovak. Most all the men were "mill hunkies", working at Allegheny Ludlum Steel.
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby MurphOnMillerAve » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:37 pm

It still boggles my pea-pickin mind that that whole way of life has been wiped away.

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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby Tom Dempsey » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:53 pm

Sort of like the need to wear bell bottoms and platform shoes while sporting a mullet.

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robert.
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby robert. » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:14 am

I sold a Philly real estate map on eBay. If i remember right this map was printed around 1870. It was directed towards realtors and showed areas by ethnicity. It has Irish,Polish German sections and other Philly is still pretty much segregated that way. So much so that they need to bus school kids all over the city just to meet state laws on segregation.
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby HONDO74 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:31 am

What was the reason all the Europeans came to this country in the first place. What were they escaping ?? Was Europe that big of a stinkhole ?

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robert.
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby robert. » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:40 am

They came with the belief that the grass is greener on the other side
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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Escaping The U.S.

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:58 am

HONDO74 wrote:What was the reason all the Europeans came to this country in the first place. What were they escaping ?? Was Europe that big of a stinkhole ?


Escape from poverty, political oppression, religious persecution, and in some cases they were being deported as criminals combined with economic opportunity for others.
Conservatism: The intense fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is inferior is being treated as your equal.


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