Tax Reform

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Roy
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Tax Reform

Postby Roy » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:57 am

Congress is taking up the matter right now. One of my problems with the bill, as it stands, is a $1.5 trillion addition to our debt, which mostly benefits the rich. We've already got something like a $20 trillion debt, which seriously needs to be reduced.

The bill also maintains a preference for overseas investment, when it's American business, especially manufacturing, that needs the boost.
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HONDO74
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby HONDO74 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:19 pm

Roy
Instead of worrying about tax reform you should get with your governor and fix the pollution on the southern border.

Now that California is a SANCTUARY state and accepts all the illegal Mexicans, it looks like you are going to haft to accept their CRAP also.

US 'doesn't give a crap' about Mexico sewage spills sickening Calif. beachgoers, critics say
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/us ... s-say.html

IMPERIAL BEACH, Calif. – Up to 200 days a year, this otherwise pristine beach in Southern California is closed because of raw sewage and industrial waste from Mexico, a treaty violation for which Washington has shown little interest in enforcing.

Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:44 pm

HONDO74 wrote:US 'doesn't give a crap' about Mexico sewage spills sickening Calif. beachgoers, critics say


The US doesn't give a a crap about sewage spills in the US from the US......If it rains enough in DC, it's been a regular result......

Then again, sewage spills in DC are routinely happening in Congress daily.
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HONDO74
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby HONDO74 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:51 pm

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Then again, sewage spills in DC are routinely happening in Congress daily.


Very well said. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:11 pm

Roy wrote:Congress is taking up the matter right now. One of my problems with the bill, as it stands, is a $1.5 trillion addition to our debt, which mostly benefits the rich. We've already got something like a $20 trillion debt, which seriously needs to be reduced.

The bill also maintains a preference for overseas investment, when it's American business, especially manufacturing, that needs the boost.


People hear the phrase "tax cut" and immediately then all rational thought evaporates with the expectations that they will somehow benefit despite history proving otherwise. Anybody here actually benefit from the 2 Reagana & 1 Bush tax cut other than learning how to weather recessions?
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healey36
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby healey36 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:17 pm

Depends on your definition of 'benefit'. I'm reasonably sure my effective federal tax rate went down, and a bunch of folks dropped off the federal tax rolls entirely. However our kids and their kids got crushed with the exploded national debt.

Senate is set to release their package tomorrow or Thursday. Theirs is debt-neutral, unlike the House version. Supposedly it eliminates the state/local tax deduction, then defers the entire corporate tax break out for a year or two. It will be interesting to see this get handled by the reconciliation committee.

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Mitch
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Mitch » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:23 pm

My thoughts on this "so called" tax reform is: "give all the benefits to business, throw a tiny bone to the middle class and make it look like we're doin' them a favor by letting them keep a small amount more of their money, and since 20% of the highest wage earners pay 90% of all income taxes, let's give them a break with a big cut.

If it was really reform, it would be a flat income tax. My plan would be a 6, 8, 12 percent plan. Since the government has never stipulated what the "middle class" is, I like the formula that I read about last week. The government does say that the medium income in the US is $62,500. Now, I personally don't know (at least of any aquaintance) anybody who makes that much money. I live at the bottom of the circle. But they say if $65,500 is medium, then middle class should be defined as 2/3rds on the low side, (roughly $41,250), and double on the high side, or $125K per year. These figures put me in the "working poor" class, but I still believe that everyone should pay taxes. So, I'm all for a flat tax of 6% for less than $42k, 8% up to $125K, and 12% for everyone above. The only deductions I'd allow would be 10K head of household, 15K married filing jointly, $4K per dependent, interest on your primary home, medical expenses after $5K, and charitable contributions. That's it! No loopholes. No additional deductions of any kind. (Yeah, I know about utilities, gasoline, insurances, and the like, but everybody gotta pay them too). Sorry, Bill Gates, if you earned $1billion, you're payin' $120 mil without exceptions. If you're below the middle class theshold, and make $40K, for a family of 4 filing jointly, you'd get $15K joint, plus two dependents for an additional $8K, so it would be 6% of the remaining 17K or $1,020. Simple, ain't it. Now, that really could be done on a form the size of a postcard.
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robert.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby robert. » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:43 pm

In Bucks county a family of 4 with $40,000 will be struggling to pay bills. National debt. That's a redhead stepchild. Kicked around and pointed out by the other side.Like a Christmas fruit cake it get passed from party to party. I'd default on it.
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:44 pm

healey36 wrote:Depends on your definition of 'benefit'. I'm reasonably sure my effective federal tax rate went down, and a bunch of folks dropped off the federal tax rolls entirely.


As far as I know, our tax bill never went down.......

However our kids and their kids got crushed with the exploded national debt.


I think that this next tax cut is going to add a few more generations to that crush.
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healey36
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby healey36 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:12 am

I agree with much of Mitch's sentiment but I think the flat-tax rate would have to be much higher than 6%/8%/12% if it's going to be debt-neutral. I seem to recall if you compare the Federal budget to what is taxable gross income in this country the base-rate is something like 18%. I definitely agree that everyone needs to pay taxes, i.e. have skin in the game.

I went back and looked at my tax returns from the mid-to-late-1980's. My tax bill did rise each year but that was a time when my income was going up pretty dramatically. However, when I look at what I paid versus what I earned the rate definitely went down slightly.

Now, if you want to talk about the anal-retentiveness of anyone that would hang onto 30+ years of tax returns, that's another matter...

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healey36
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby healey36 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:14 am

robert. wrote: I'd default on it.


Ultimately that's what'll happen...

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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:27 am

I think the flat-tax rate would have to be much higher than 6%/8%/12% if it's going to be debt-neutral. I seem to recall if you compare the Federal budget to what is taxable gross income in this country the base-rate is something like 18%.


What I was alluding to in tweaking the numbers - still have to pay the bills...and when a couple of serious hurricanes and then huge fires hit the country, all of a sudden there's a huge gap that has to be addressed.

Right now it looks like there's a good chance of another shut down in a week.........oh, wait, I'm retired, :mrgreen:
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Roy
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Roy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:32 am

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:.........oh, wait, I'm retired, :mrgreen:

Congratulations! Enjoy it. :D
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:36 am

Roy wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:.........oh, wait, I'm retired, :mrgreen:

Congratulations! Enjoy it. :D


As I sit in my home office working at my new job as an Editor of a scientific journal, :mrgreen:
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Roy
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Re: Tax Reform

Postby Roy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:46 am

robert. wrote: I'd default on it.
healey36 wrote:Ultimately that's what'll happen...

I think that would probably be seriously disastrous. Like the Great Depression of the 1930's, which I'm guessing none of us here were around for.
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