Hobo Jungle

[Rufus T. Firefly]

...but really what kind of trouble would I be laying myself open to if I had that option and used it? You can just imagine the potential for disaster, can't you...

Alas, that is the truth for today's society.

Lordknows what kind of lawsuit or accusation she may have had in mind had you attempted to help. Your reticence was probably something visceral in you that warned you appropriately that something was amiss. It's not a bad thing to "go w/ you gut instinct," at times. We may be sensing more than we know or can easily verbalize when we are near something or someone to be feared or cautious near.

Dirt's advice is sage, I believe.

Unfortunately we live in age where no good deed goes unpunished....

[Tramp]

How many of you have actually spent time with tramps and bums, or been one for longer than a week?

[rogruth]

Tramp,

I have not.I think that you have [thus the name].Tell us more especially about the side of it mentioned in the above.

[The Dirt]

Tramp, I was hoping you'd weigh-in.

Wasn't it you that told me the difference between a hobo, a tramp, and a bum?

[MurphOnMillerAve]

How many of you have actually spent time with tramps and bums, or been one for longer than a week?

Perhaps, that very concept is relative. That is, many, many individuals have tremendous wealth. Quite a number of those folk (ever see the TV show, "New Jersey Housewives"?) live very near me and see my "Middle Class" existence as a sad joke. In fact, I have heard it voiced in public gatherings by some that those who have become teachers are suckers, somebody who wasted a college education on a non-profitable, lazy venture, rewarded w/ remarkably low status in American society and paid a low wage accordingly.

In my opinion - and not just because I have been one - teachers should be paid something near what doctors and lawyers are paid; at least, in the 6-figure range. Teachers build and save lives and do so one child at a time, but whole classes at a time. Try litigating or medicating with accuracy w/ those odds. Are there some incompetents and fools in the classroom? Yes, and on both sides of the teacher's desk. Are there doctors and lawyers who should be dismissed for incompetence? Look at any court docket for those statistics. If what teachers accomplish does not require a significant myriad of skills when done well, why expect so much of them. Keep threating them like they know nothing, and that only a parent knows what a child needs. The numbers of disorders, psychological and sociological, that present in a classroom, are legion. Don't think so? Try teaching - not baby sitting - but actual control, management, order, progress, and inculcation of knowledge.

Have I digressed from your question? Perhaps.

Being college-educated and working for money that is certainly insufficient for one teacher to provide for a family of four, for example, possessed of all the requisite medical care, apparel, conveniences, etc. makes some alleged-Middle Class ediucators feel like they are treated like tramps, laughed at, scorned, condescended to, and relegated to a level of society and income that makes them feel marginalized. Some are nearly homeless, or live in nothing like Upper Class homes, live from pay check to pay check, and do so w/ much trepidation.

Have I actually "spent time w/ tramps and bums"? Some consider me to be a bum (pun intended.)

[kerr]

How many of you have actually spent time with tramps and bums, or been one for longer than a week?

I've done both.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

How many of you have actually spent time with tramps and bums, or been one for longer than a week?

I've done both.

And how do you feel about that - what is your perspective, now?

[shushupe]

Dirt,

Re: those personality disorders that you mentioned(pure anti-social disorder, and reactive attachment)... I think those types of labels are pure bullshit. The reality is that people become what they are for many reasons, and it would be virtually impossible to accurately identify all the, real, factors that make a person who they really are(personality).

A simplistic example of what I am talking about is... the color of paint. When you see someones house painted a certain color(lets use the color blue as an example, here) it's not hard for you to give a general description of that color - i.e. you identify the color as being blue.

Have you even gone to a paint store, and requested a specific color of paint? If you have then you will know that, many precise measurements of various colors are added to a basically neutral/white base(paint). When the required recipe of colors has been added, to the base color, then the contents are shaken/agitated until all the colors have blended in, and now the paint has taken on a new appearance, the desired color.

My paint analogy can be applied to peoples personalities... as I said, many things contribute to what we, simplistically, refer to as personality. I have yet to see anyone on this planet... come close to identifying what a, given, person is re: their so-called personality, and what made them that way.

To get an accurate color match with paint requires a precise formula of ingredients... too much of something, not enough of another, or failing to add something... will alter the end results, the final color.

Human beings are continually changing throughout their lifetimes... genetics, the environment, ones personal experiences etc...a multitude of things/factors that are continually changing, contribute to who we are.

Labels(such as personality disorders) are man's feeble attempt to assert control, where the is none... humans are generally insecure beings... who frequently rely on pseudo ways of thinking... to alleviate the fear of the unknown, and calm an uneasy mind... i.e. they covet a sense of mastery, and control over their environment.

The girl bikermike wrote about is unsettling for many reasons... and most of the replies on this thread are fear based(some for good reasons), but labeling this girl is an easy way to dismiss a human being... and it helps sooth ones conscience, thus allowing oneself to remain detached from this particular human beings(the young girl's) plight.

To be truthful... I am actually surprised by your comments, here.

Rick

[kerr]

How many of you have actually spent time with tramps and bums, or been one for longer than a week?

I've done both.

And how do you feel about that - what is your perspective, now?

It's a way of life that is fraught with difficulty mainly because our society makes little or no provision for anyone who either chooses or is compelled to seek an alternative. Even if by using your wits and knowledge you can manage to make your way without resorting to petty crime, you're technically in violation of several laws just by having made that choice. Take, for example, trespassing. If you dont have a shelter and have to seek shelter in somebody elses structure be it a barn, a railway station, whatever you are trespassing. Laying snares for small game could probably get you in trouble for poaching - the rabbits may be 'free' but the land they are on is probably not - do you have a fishing license, see what I mean?

In the cities its easier to find food for free, there are plenty of handouts if you know where to go, out in the country it's much harder to find enough to eat without getting into trouble because for one thing, though townies never realize this, the average rural community knows every inch of that apparently open farmland and woodland and you'll be spotted much quicker than in a metropolis where there are enough people on the streets day and night to make it easy to blend in.

In England, last time I was there several decades ago, the Romany (gypsies) had a certain amount of freedom to live on the road, there are official sites for them and various means are employed to make it more attractive for them to stay on site but there are still families that make the rounds from the horse fairs and racetracks and various other similar gatherings and there are little known and largely unregulated ways along which they can move which I won't mention.

Population pressure alone makes it hard to be a nomad in the crowded Western countries but by and large the majority that I encountered were no more criminal than anyone else and I'd say that most of them preferred to live like that rather than the feeling of being trapped in one place, caught up in a system they can't cope with.

My tramping period lasted about nine months and covered most of England from one end to the other and it was my choice out of sheer stubborness rather than return home with my tail between my legs. Eventually I found my own niche and could start over without any help or anyone else being around to make unflattering comparisons between my earlier life and the situation I found for myself. Ironically my Boy Scout training stood me in good stead during this time in which I did a hell of a lot of walking and camping out, the Outward Bound course teaches you how to survive and stay out of sight, all in all I was glad when it was all over but it was a very interesting period of my life I do not regret having lived through.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

Two experiences of mine touch on the question of having ever been homeless (a term seemngly preferred in some circles to "tramp" or "bum," nowadays, both of which have come to be considered pejoratives.

As a boy (in the 50's), my mother and I had heard that transients had a way of marking friendly neighborhoods and accepting houses - places where a person could find a handout. We had a back-porch that possessed a little 2-bench booth, like in an ice cream store of the time. Mother would let guys who came to the door sit there to eat a sandwich she had prepared on the spot for them. Then, they'd leave on their own. Only certain guys seem bold enough (and seemingly well-kempt enough) to acceot our hospitalty, but some of the neighbors were not too pleased. However, some of the others gave alms, too. I never could figure out how the variety and good number of homeless men found out about us, but they did appear often. Interestingly enough, my mother said she felt we had an extra shield of protection around us w/ or welcoming attitude, esp. since my father had died ,and we felt vulnerable but well looked after by many.

The second experience relating to homelessness occurred durng the late 60's when I traveled several times from our home in Pittsburgh, PA to my "hippie commune" in NY. I traveled on a Honda 50 (yes, that tiny and insipid a vehicle; it actually slowed down on upgrades!) which took a couple days (at those "speeds".) At nightfall, I'd drag the little blue Honda off to the side of the road and up embankments, into wooded areas, for cover. I'd sleep by leaning my head against the bike and curling up in a sleeping bag, feeling full of youth and adventure and freedom. Did that count toward having been a tramp or bum?

[shushupe]

An addendum to my last post.

Through my experiences in corrections... I have personally met literally hundreds, if not thousands, of people, male and female,(some were youths, and some where adults) who have lived on the streets etc...

And, from what I have personally seen, re: these individuals... their lifestyle is anything but glamorous. Many of these people have significant, serious, problems, that are chronic: and live tragic lives... the pain they had to endure, must have been unbearable.

A significant number of these people are now dead... drugs and violence frequently factored into their lives.

I am not saying that I would have helped the young girl bikermike encountered, but I do feel for her... I have been privy to some real bad stuff re: some street people, and I am thankful that I have never been in their shoes.

Rick

[rogruth]

I said earlier that my grandparents always fed tramps and hobos but not bums.Now I do not know how they could tell the difference but they could.There was never any fear expressed about these people.

Now it seems,as expressed above,that these people are now thought to be dangerous and part of a criminal element.What caused this change and when did it happen?It seems that the same type of thing has happened with hitch-hikers.

[shushupe]

Roger,

As is usually the case... there are numerous reasons/factors for why some people end up living on the fringes of society. One thing is for sure, though... the readily available supply of drugs has significantly altered many people's lives, especially those who find themselves living on the street. Once an individual acquires a drug habit... criminal behavior is soon to follow.

It should be noted that, many of the drugs that are currently available... are, extremely, highly addictive(they have been purposely designed that way, to ensure a steady customer base). And, the only way that most people can continue to feed their habit is through crime. Drug use - addiction - crime... becomes a chronic pattern for the addicted person, and these people frequently require an even higher consumption of drugs, as well as even stronger drugs... to keep themselves functioning.

Once a person enters this type of lifestyle, it is usually very hard to leave it behind... a tragic fate is frequently the end result.


Rick

[Tramp]

Rick, you really know, don't you?

[shushupe]

Tramp,

I dealt with many people, over many years, whose lives mirrored what I have written about, here... including young offenders, adult offenders; and mentally disordered offenders. I stand by the statements I have made. Nowadays, living on the streets is an extremely dangerous and stressful way to live...

You can try to put it out there that, such a life would adventuresome, and great fun, but, from what I have seen, it is anything but...

Rick